Birds of Prey vs A-Force

This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. 

Hi, welcome to the DynaMic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny DC. 

And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are doing a surprise Team Duel episode between DC's Birds of Prey and Marvel's A-Force. Yeah, we're doing this special team duel in honor of Women's History Month, so to celebrate all the women's out there, here's your duel of badass female superhero teams. Not gonna lie, I'm a little nervous about this because I know A-Force is essentially female Avengers and Birds of Prey tends to be a little bit more street level, so we'll see how it goes later on in this episode. Before that, we are not going to break down the comic book movie news from this past week because there isn't any, not anything concrete anyway. Yeah, we did get news that Sadie Sink has been cast in the new Spider-Man movie, but there's nothing really to discuss there because we don't know who she's playing. But we will be having a question of the week later on this episode. 

As always, we list our segment times and our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent duel simulator, AJ9K, has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. 

Why hello there. Do you want even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the Dynamic Duel community on Patreon where you can choose from three tiers. The Dynamic 2.0 tier gives you access to our Discord chat server, the Fantastic Four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly, the Diner Mike podcast network tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamicduel. Pip pip cheerio. 

Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Guys, be sure to tune into the other shows on the Dynamite podcast network this week, including Max Destruction, which pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other. This Wednesday, host Scotty and Gilly are finding out who would win in a fight between Disney's Hercules and Maui from Moana. On the Send Your World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga characters. On Thursday, Zach is going to discuss who would win between Vasto Lorde Ichigo from Bleach and Six Tail Cubie from Naruto. And on the console combat podcast, host John and Dean simulate battles between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode, they reviewed Dungeons and Dragons, Honor Among Thieves. 

Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in the Dynamite podcast network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week, we asked you guys, what is your favorite Marvel and DC comics crossover and why? 

And this is coming off the news that Marvel and DC are going to put out two one shot crossover issues later on this year sometime in 2025. We don't have any of the specific details on it, but we love the idea and thought it was worth asking about. Yeah, we got three answers for this question. So let's break down our two honorable mentions before revealing this week's no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to by DearBangora who said, Hello, Dynamic Dual. 

I think the best Marvel DC crossover is Batman versus Punisher. The fact that both characters have strict codes that are vastly different, but that unites them as well. I also like that we can see the creation of Red Hood coming from this crossover being a mix of both characters. So for me, Punisher versus Batman, the dichotomy and the difference between the characters and their code and their will makes this comic book. 

Yeah, it looks like he got cut off there, but he's referring to the Punisher Batman deadly knights crossover comic book in which Punisher pays a visit to Gotham City. And if that concept sounds intriguing to you, hell yeah, it was. I really like that comic book, even though, you know, Batman kind of beats a shit out of Punisher towards the end and kind of like humbles him. Punisher does get in a good line where he tells Batman that he and the Joker deserve each other. 

So I like that. Yeah, Punisher also makes Joker essentially shit himself, too. So that was also a great moment from the comic. Yeah, it was a great look at just like the two moralities of the character. 

You know, Punisher, he kills his bad guys and he basically saw Batman as liable and all of the Joker's murders because he wouldn't kill the Joker. You know, it's always been an interesting debate. And it was one that was explored in that comic. 

So that philosophical aspect alone, I think, sets it a level above quite a few DC Marvel crossovers. Great answer by DearBangora. Our next honorable mention goes to Mason Thompson. Who said? 

Hey, what's up? It's Mason. And I would have to say if it was my favorite Marvel and DC crossover, I'd just do the two, probably be one Batman Humboldt Punisher, because I was stuff and or one if it's just DC, then it would be Batman when he went over to Ninja Turtles. Because that is always so cool to see him fight with like all the turtles and yeah. 

Yeah, I'm not sure if Mason is referring again to the Punisher Batman deadly knights crossover, because I'm kind of ashamed to say that Batman has actually beat the shit out of Punisher in multiple crossovers. 

I remember in J.L .A. Avengers, Punisher was in the middle of killing some bad guys while Batman was doing reconnaissance in the Marvel Universe. And then Batman saw him doing this and then broke through the warehouse and then beat the shit out of Punisher to keep him from killing everybody. 

I mean, is it any surprise, though? Like Punisher is not at the level of martial arts finesse that Batman is. He doesn't need to when he has bullets. And plus, he's he's a pretty damn good fighter. 

He's a really good fighter, but he's also like 70. And Batman's like not anymore. But no, Batman and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles crossover was also awesome. They made a movie about it. And we actually did a review of that film on a guest spot for the Ready to Retro podcast where we talk all about that movie and the comic. It was good time. So make sure to check that out if you haven't. Yeah, we love the Ready to Retro, guys. So great answer, Mason Thompson. The winner of this week's No Prize is Christopher Minotti, who said. 

Hi, guys, this is Christopher Minotti. My favorite would have to be the four issues of Marvel vs. DC, because it's exactly what comic book fans love. The discussion of which side is stronger, whose characters would win more fights. And I feel like those four issues, it showed that while sometimes DC character will win and sometimes a Marvel character will win. In the end, Marvel will always lose to Superman. 

Now, if I remember correctly in that miniseries, Marvel actually won a majority of those matches, but it was total bullshit because a few of the winners were determined by fan votes and there's no way Wolverine at Storm would have beaten Lobo and Wonder Woman. Yeah, they would have. It showed in the comic just how that would have happened. 

It literally didn't, though. Like Wolverine and Lobo go behind a bar and then Wolverine just stands up and smokes a cigar. It's like, what happened behind that bar? He gutted him like he said he would. That's what happened. OK, so he did something that wouldn't kill Lobo. 

Gotcha. You sound like a fucking whiny loser. Maybe don't be so jealous about Marvel's victories. I'm super bitter about it. 

I don't care. No, that crossover event was a defining moment, I think, for my Jonathan's childhood. I remember going to the comic book store and getting the big Marvel versus DC poster that they were selling there along with the comic books. And it was just a magical time, really. And in many ways, influenced us into doing this podcast like 20 years later. Oh, absolutely. 

Yeah, if you guys haven't listened to our guest spot on the Rankers, where we talk about why DC or Marvel is better, definitely check that episode out as well, because I talk about how the DC versus Marvel mini series influenced us when we first started reading comics. But great answer, Christopher. You win this week's No Prize. 

If you're the listener who won a shot at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week and know that that's done onto the question of the week. What character do you think Sadie Sink will be playing in the upcoming fourth Spider-Man film from Marvel Studios? And we received a word over this past week that Sadie Sink has been cast. We just don't know what role she's playing. 

There's a lot of conjecture out there, but we want to hear what you guys think and why. Record your answer at dynamicdool.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic dual No Prize that will post to Instagram. 

Be sure to answer before March 22nd. But let's go ahead and move on to the main event of this episode, where we find out who would win in a battle between the all female teams of Birds of Prey and a force. OK, Birds of Prey versus a force. As we mentioned earlier, these are two all female teams from DC and Marvel respectively. Birds of Prey, notoriously, you could say, had a live action film, but it was really just a Harley Quinn film. A force has not had its own movie. No, but they also notoriously had a moment in Avengers Endgame where a lot of the female superheroes that were fighting against Thanos in the climactic battle joined together to help get the Infinity Gauntlet over to Ant-Man and the Wasp as they were powering up the Quantum Tunnel. A lot of people found it pandering, but I actually loved it as a comic book fan because I was like, it's fucking a force. 

They're like doing an Easter egg for that. I guess if you didn't know the comics and just thought that they were doing it for girl power, then I can maybe see where they were coming from. But I personally enjoyed that moment in that movie. Yeah, I didn't know what a force was at the time when I saw that. So I definitely was like, oh, look, they're all posing together. Girl power. 

Yeah, I think the boys' television show made fun of it, too, at some point. But they don't know they're just fucking cynical. I mean, let's be real. That scene was kind of better than the entirety of Birds of Prey, though. You're not wrong. And Birds of Prey wasn't even that bad. It was just a really bad Birds of Prey film. 

Right. I mean, the movie should have been called Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey. The Birds of Prey team shouldn't have taken center stage because they really weren't the focus and they weren't really adapted that well. 

Right, exactly. So if the only thing you know about the Birds of Prey is the movie, forget everything you know about the Birds of Prey. Yeah, the origin for Birds of Prey in the comic books is way different from the film. But I got to say the origin for a force is almost non-existent in the comic books. They just manifested as a team within the alternate reality of battle worlds that Dr. Doom created. So there's no real origin story for a force, but they do have, you know, a history. OK, well, that's almost like Birds of Prey, too, because they didn't even call themselves Birds of Prey or think of themselves as an official team until like issue 80. 

Oh, wow. Well, I can't wait to hear all about their backstory as we go into that in a bit here. But to explain the methodology behind our duels, let's go to our sentient dual simulator, Alfred Jarvis, 9000. Adrian and I, K tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our dual matchups. 

Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the two teams is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations between every character on each team using their statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters statistics are extrapolated. 

Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 49,000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character on both teams. The team with the higher average win rate is declared the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither team should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. 

Thanks to J9K. Before we run the simulations, though, we like to break down each team's histories and rosters before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the many simulations would play out beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to go first with the DC team's backstory. So let me tell you about Birds of Prey. The Birds of Prey began as a partnership between Barbara Gordon, the former Batgirl, now operating as the information broker known as Oracle, and Dynal Lance, the martial arts expert and vigilante known as Black Canary, each of whom you can learn more about in their respective duels against Hawkeye, Kate Bishop, and Black Widow. Now after suffering a spinal injury at the hands of the Joker, Barbara reinvented herself as Oracle, creating a vast intelligence network that provided real-time information to superheroes worldwide. Initially, she sought out Powergirl as her first field agent, but after an early mission resulted in tragic casualties, Powergirl severed ties with Oracle, leaving Barbara searching for a more compatible operative. Oracle eventually turned to Black Canary, a veteran crime fighter who had lost her Canary cry, but continued patrolling the streets as a highly skilled combatant. Operating from the Gotham City clock tower, Oracle and Black Canary formed a formidable duo, with Dynah handling field operations and Barbara coordinating commissions behind the scenes. 

Their partnership thrived, despite occasional ideological differences, and over time, Oracle expanded her intelligence network to include a growing roster of agents. The team solidified when Black Canary was captured by the villainous Savant, an information broker and former vigilante who sought to control Gotham's underworld. Unable to call upon the Bat Family for assistance, Oracle reached out to Huntress, a brutal and relentless vigilante with ties to the city's criminal underbelly. Working together, Oracle and Huntress successfully rescued Black Canary, leading Barbara to formally recruit Huntress as a full-time agent. 

And you, of course, can learn more about Huntress in her dual episode against Jessica Jones. Soon after, Lady Black Hawk, a time-displaced World War II pilot and former member of the Black Hawk Squadron, joined the team after a mission involving a hijacked aircraft. Though she was originally an outlier due to her outdated views and hard drinking demeanor, Lady Black Hawk quickly became an invaluable member, serving as the team's pilot and transport specialist. With its core trio of Oracle, Black Canary and Huntress, along with Lady Black Hawk providing air support, the Birds of Prey expanded their operations, tackling threats that other hero teams ignored or were unable to address. 

They faced off against criminals such as Cheshire, Senator Pullman, and the Blackmailer Savant while also dealing with espionage, human trafficking, and international crime syndicates. For years, the Birds of Prey operated from Oracle's Command Center inside the Gotham Clock Tower, but their headquarters came under attack during a full-scale gang war. Black Mask, the crime lord who had taken control of Gotham's underworld, targeted Oracle's operations, leading an assault that resulted in the Clock Tower's destruction. 

Forced to abandon Gotham, Barbara temporarily disbanded the team and went into hiding. After a brief time operating covertly, Oracle reassembled the Birds of Prey, now stationed aboard the ARE-1, a high-tech mobile command aircraft outfitted with cutting-edge surveillance and tactical equipment. From there, they took on high-risk missions across the globe, tackling threats ranging from super-powered crime syndicates to political conspiracies. Seeking a more stable base of operations, Oracle relocated the team to Metropolis, but their presence in Superman's city led to clashes with local authorities and rival vigilante groups. 

Eventually, they settled in Platinum Flats, a high-tech city on the West Coast with deep ties to organized crime and corporate corruption. With a growing roster that now included Big Barda, Manhunter, Gypsy, and Judo Master, the Birds of Prey fought against the city's underground syndicates while facing opposition from the metahuman criminal underworld. During their time in Platinum Flats, the team found themselves targeted by Spy Smasher, the alias of Katarina Armstrong, a former government operative and Barbara's childhood rival. Katarina sought to take control of the Birds of Prey, leveraging her influence to force Oracle out. This led to a dramatic confrontation where Barbara challenged the Spy Smasher to a one-on-one fight, with the winner taking control of the organization. Despite her physical limitations, Oracle outmaneuvered Spy Smasher and won the fight. 

However, Katarina refused to honor their agreement. Before she could make a move against Oracle, the Birds of Prey assembled in full force alongside numerous allies including Black Canary, Wildcat, and even the assassin Lady Shiva. Overwhelmed and outmatched, Spy Smasher had no choice but to back down, and Oracle secured the Birds of Prey's independence once and for all. As Oracle's intelligence network grew, so did her list of enemies. Chief among them was the Calculator, a cyber-criminal and information broker who sought to unmask Oracle and eliminate her as a threat. Their ongoing digital war escalated when the Calculator attempted to harness fragments of the Anti-Life Equation, a cosmic formula capable of controlling minds. To counter his growing power, Oracle led an all-out cyber assault enlisting allies such as Cassandra Kane, Huntress, and even members of the Justice League to dismantle his operations. Though she successfully thwarted Calculator's plans, the battle left her questioning her own effectiveness, leading her to temporarily disband the Birds of Prey once again to reassess her role. 

Following Batman's apparent death, Oracle resumed operations in Gotham City, assisting Nightwing in maintaining order as criminals seized the opportunity to expand their influence. She reassembled the Birds of Prey with a new lineup that included the Medi-Human Bruiser Hawk, the Pacifist Warrior Dove, and a returning Countress. Establishing a new headquarters in Cord Tower, during this time, Black Canary left the team to raise her adopted daughter, Sin, but eventually returned when the Birds faced a resurgence of organized crime in Gotham. 

The team also recruited two new members, Black Alice, a teenage sorceress with the ability to temporarily steal magical powers, and Misfit, a homeless runaway with teleportation abilities whom Oracle took under her wing. As the Birds of Prey continued to expand, they took on major players in the criminal underworld, including an underground Medi-Human trafficking gang and the growing influence of the villainous organization known as the Secret Six. Their battles led to high stakes confrontations against figures like Harley Quinn, Talia El Ghul, and her League of Assassins. Following the Flashpoint event, the history of the Birds of Prey was rebooted, and the team was reestablished as a covert operations unit based in Gotham City. Black Canary formed a new incarnation of the group, recruiting Starling, Batgirl, Katana, and Poison Ivy for a series of high-risk missions. Their early cases involved stopping a villain known as Choke, who used nanotechnology to turn people into living bombs. The team faced internal strife when Poison Ivy attempted to manipulate them into joining her crusade against environmental criminals. Katana ultimately killed Ivy in self-defense, leaving the team shaken. Shortly after, Starling betrayed them to both Mr. 

Freeze and the Court leading to further fractures within the group. After learning that her presumed dead ex-husband, Kurt Lance, was being held captive by the terrorist organization Basilisk, Black Canary went rogue to rescue him. This put her at odds with Amanda Waller, who had manipulated the team from behind the scenes. When Ras Al Ghul entered the conflict offering Black Canary a Lazarus pet serum in exchange for her cooperation, she turned him down, setting off a chain of events that nearly led to the team's destruction. In the latest incarnation of the team, Black Canary has once again taken charge, forming a new squad consisting of Cassandra Kane, Big Barda, Zellet, and Harley Quinn. Now team-wise, I knew that Barbara Gordon would be a no-brainer to include on my 7-person roster, since she's the entire reason the team exists. She's joining as Batgirl, not Oracle though, as Batgirl has been a member in recent years in the comics. Black Canary and Huntress were also Shoe-ins considering they and Barbara form the core team of Birds of Prey. I decided to also go with Powergirl, since she was technically Barbara's first field agent prior to recruiting Black Canary, as well as Dove, one half of Hawk and Dove, though replacing Hawk will be Hawk Girl, who has helped the team against the Seeker 6 and is a bird of prey in her own right. For my 7th and final team member, I could have gone with Lady Black Hawk, who I would consider to be a 4th core member if there ever was one, but there have been much more interesting characters on the Birds of Prey team, especially ones that I knew wouldn't drag down the team's stats like Lady Black Hawk would, who's pretty weak. In the end, I decided to go with Vixen as my final team member, as she's a powerhouse that I believe will help raise what is traditionally a street level team like Birds of Prey to a force level. 

So that's my team. Batgirl, Black Canary, Huntress, Powergirl, Dove, Hawk Girl, and Vixen. Has Vixen ever been associated with the team? Yes, she has been a field agent for Oracle in the past. 

She helped Huntress bring down some cults in the Pacific Northwest. Okay, all right. That's a pretty damn good lineup. It was interesting to hear how for the majority of their existence, the Birds of Prey were supported and founded by Barbara Gordon as Oracle. It's kind of hard to know what the team functions like when Barbara Gordon is Batgirl as opposed to Oracle. Well, she just does all of her information brokering in the field. She still has computer gadgets attached to her suit and stuff like that. 

She's definitely still like the brains of the team, just that now she's fighting alongside them. That's pretty cool. I like that. It was also interesting to see that Harley Quinn has become a member of the team. I feel like they only did that because of the movie. I agree. Yeah, 100%. 

That's the case. I was actually thinking of including Harley Quinn on this team since she does have that tie in in the general public's mind considering she was in the movie. But I already used Harley Quinn in the Suicide Squad versus Defenders team doled that we did earlier. 

Yeah, that's right. Well, let me go ahead and get into a forces backstory. A Force was an all female superhero team that emerged in the alternate reality of Battle World, a patchwork planet created by Dr. Doom following the destruction of the multiverse. They operated as the defenders of Arcadia, a utopian island territory within Battle World under the leadership of She-Hulk, who also served as Arcadia's appointed Baroness. Wait, is Arcadia an all female island? No, they had dudes there, but it was just run by women. 

But it's an island utopia. Yeah. Oh, just like them. It's not like them. 

RIP off. Anyway, the founding roster included over 40 women heroes, including Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Spider Woman, Medusa, Dazzler, Nico Minoru, and Mockingbird to The team protected Arcadia from a Megalodon attack off the island's coast. They successfully subdued the creature, but Miss America hurled it beyond the massive shield wall that separated Arcadia from the zombie infested Deadlands and inadvertently damaging the barrier. This act violated Dr. Doom's laws and despite She-Hulk's protests, the Thor core, who were the elite enforcers of Doom's rule, arrived to arrest America Chavez. 

She was sentenced to exile, forced to serve as guardian of the shield for the rest of her life. In response, She-Hulk tasked Arcadia's undersea residents, including Namor, Namorita, and Namora, with investigating the origins of the Megalodon attack. Meanwhile, Nico Minoru discovered a mysterious girl who had fallen from the sky. A female variant of Loki advised Nico to bring the mysterious girl to Ape Horse for further examination. As the team tried to determine her origins, portals began opening across Arcadia, allowing dangerous creatures to enter the territory. 

One such portal unleashed a mutant Sentinel, which Ape Horse managed to destroy with the unexpected help of the mysterious girl. Medusa immediately accused her of being responsible for the portals, but She-Hulk refused to accept this claim without proof. When another portal opened, She-Hulk chose to travel through it, seeking answers. She-Hulk arrived in the Sentinel territories where she was pursued by the robots and confronted by members of the Thor Corps for trespassing across battleworld's borders. She fought off the Thors and returned to Arcadia, realizing that the portals were created with magic from Arcadia, suggesting that someone within Ape Horse had betrayed them. Before the team could investigate further, the Thor Corps arrived in Arcadia, demanding She-Hulk's surrender. 

Medusa sacrificed herself to repel the Thors, buying time for She-Hulk and her allies to regroup. With the team now branded outlaws, Loki seized the opportunity to climb the portal. A-Force quickly deduced that Loki was the true traitor responsible for creating the portals to destabilize She-Hulk's rule. 

Before she could be crowned Baroness, A-Force launched an attack exposing her deception. In retaliation, Loki unleashed one final assault, using her powers to breach the shield barrier, allowing the hordes of undead from the deadlands to invade Arcadia. A-Force joined by the remaining forces of Arcadia, including the members of the Thorkor, the X-Men and the Submariner's forces, mounted a desperate defense against the undead. As the zombies overwhelmed them, the mysterious girl, now named Singularity, sacrificed herself to save her new friends. She absorbed the horde into the pocket dimension within herself and ascended into the sky before exploding in a flash of light. 

The battle was won, but Arcadia had suffered heavy losses, and A-Force was left forever changed. Following the end of Battleworld and the restoration of the multiverse, Singularity re-emerged in the primary reality of Earth 616, but none of the heroes she had known on Battleworld remembered her. Her arrival was detected by Alpha Flight, whom it took her for a threat. Seeking familiarity, Singularity located Captain Marvel, believing her to be the same version she had known back in Arcadia. However, before Carol Danvers could comprehend what was happening, another cosmic entity named Antimatter arrived, pursuing Singularity across Earth. 

Singularity fled to New York City where she encountered She-Hulk. Recognizing her from Arcadia, she sought her aid, but Antimatter attacked them both. The Inhuman Queen Medusa intervened with a force of Inhuman soldiers and detained Singularity, believing her to be a danger. But when Antimatter killed one of the Inhumans, Medusa, along with She-Hulk, fought back, using Inhuman technology to teleport Antimatter to the moon to buy themselves time. Realizing the need for a stronger force, Singularity brought the group to Japan where they enlisted the aid of Niko Minoru. As Antimatter reappeared, Niko used the staff of one to temporarily banish him. Seeking a more effective means of defeating their foe, Captain Marvel devised a plan to use concentrated light energy against Antimatter. 

To implement this strategy, they sought out Dazzler in Miami and recruited her to join them. Dazzler struck Antimatter with a powerful burst of light while She-Hulk and Medusa attempted to contain him, allowing Captain Marvel time to charge a containment device. However, Antimatter proved too powerful, overloading the system and escaping. Niko then cast a spell to remove Antimatter's ability to track Singularity, allowing them to regroup aboard the Alpha Flight Space Station. 

There, scientists analyzed the data from their Miami battle and developed a device capable of dismantling Antimatter. However, it was discovered that Antimatter and Singularity were quantum entangled, meaning that destroying him would also destroy her. Due to this revelation, She-Hulk attempted to reason with Antimatter, but their negotiations failed. In retaliation, Antimatter critically wounded Dazzler. Enraged, Singularity blamed herself and left to confront Antimatter alone. She-Hulk, Minoru, and Captain Marvel followed her to the Blue Area of the Moon where Medusa planted a bomb that would destroy Antimatter. 

As the device detonated, Dazzler appeared, teleporting Singularity to safety in an act that severed their entanglement. Antimatter was finally defeated, but the battle had left A-Force shaken. A-Force remained active for some time, but their battles grew increasingly dire. 

A-Force found itself divided by ideological differences during the Second Superhero Civil War. Captain Marvel, siding with Ulysses Cain's ability to predict future crimes, turned against Nico Minoru when the Inhuman Prophet foresaw that she would one day kill a woman named Alice. Nico fled to Ure, Colorado, where she encountered Elsa Bloodstone, who was battling a monstrous infestation that was transforming the town's residents into insects. When Alice was found, it was revealed that she had inadvertently caused the outbreak, and only her death could reverse the transformation. Nico refused to kill Alice, leading to a deadly confrontation in which her A-Force teammates, who tracked her to Colorado, were also infected. 

Ultimately, Nico cast a spell that took Alice's life undoing the infection. The moral and ideological rift between Captain Marvel and Nico Minoru deepened following this incident. The strain within the team, coupled with She-Hulk's temporary retirement and Medusa's departure into space, led to A-Force's eventual dissolution, and the remaining members drifted apart. Though A-Force no longer operated as a formal team, their legacy remains to this day in comics as a testament to the strength of the deep bonds they forged while together. 

And that's their backstory. For this team duel, seven-person roster, I'll be going with some of the primary members of A-Force, along with some of the members from the team's start and battle worlds that pairs best with your Birds of Prey team. This was pretty easy, since almost every Marvel superhero was part of A-Force at that time. To start with, I went with She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Spider Woman, Jessica Drew, I should say, Nico Minoru, and Miss Marvel. All of whom you can learn more about in their own individual duels. I should note that since our Miss Marvel duel, the character underwent a slight power upgrade to match her abilities in the movies and shows. It was revealed that Kamala Khan was an inhuman who underwent pterogenesis prior to the awakening of her mutant gene, which is the power to create purple hard-light constructs. 

Wait, really? Yeah, so she'll be having that power in this duel. For the final two spots on the A-Force roster, I went with characters who haven't had their own individual duels, but were prominent heroes that paired well with your team. The first one is Dazzler, who I'm pairing with your Black Canary. Dazzler is a mutant whose real name is Alice in Blair, who has the ability to absorb sound vibrations and convert them into light energy, including lasers, strobes, and all kinds of light effects. She's a singing pop star in the books, basically the Taylor Swift of comics, and she's famous for using her powers to generate laser light shows during her concerts. 

She's been a part of the X-Men and X-Factor, and was shown in live action in the Dark Phoenix movie played by Halston Sage. For the final spot on the A-Force team, I'm going with Mockingbird, who I'm pairing against your Huntress. Now Mockingbird is one of Shield's top spies and scientists with a skill set similar to Black Widows. She's an expert biochemist and martial artist who famously uses two steel alloy battle staves, or billy clubs, that she can screw together to extend into a bow staff or vaulting pole. She was a founding member of the West Coast Avengers, and she's been depicted a few times in live action, first as Hawkeye's Wife, played by Laura Cardellini in the MCU. 

The character was also played more accurately, and really to perfection, in the Agents of Shield television show by Adrian Palakie. So to reiterate, my 7-person roster for A-Force is She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Spider Woman, Nico Minoru, Dazzler, and Mockingbird. And since we like to create pairings for these team duels in order to keep things on an even kill basically and make sure that the matches are fair, the pairings go as follows. Captain Marvel and Power Girl, She-Hulk and Hawke Girl, Dazzler and Black Canary, Nico Minoru and Batgirl, Mockingbird and Huntress, Ms. Marvel and Vixen, and Spider Woman and Dove. Yeah, the Batgirl, Nico pairing kind of throws me, but the rest of them are great, I think. Well, I figured what Batgirl lacks in powers she makes up in intelligence, and what Nico lacks in experience she makes up in having a really cool power set. 

Yeah, well, we'll see how it goes. So you haven't done duels with Dazzler and Mockingbird. I know about Dazzler, but I didn't know much about Mockingbird. It sounds like she's essentially just Black Widow who also uses battle staves. 

Not commonly, though. Like, I know that in Avengers Age of Ultron, the director, Joss Whedon, gave Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow these Billy Clubs, and she's really used them in all the Avengers movies since then, you know, until Avengers Endgame. I feel like he kind of stole them from Mockingbird in order to make Black Widow a more physical threat against characters like Ultron. But the Batons, those are typically known to be used by Mockingbird, not Black Widow. 

I won't say that she hasn't used, like, tonfas from time to time, but that's really Mockingbird's signature weapon. Okay, well, I can't wait to find out how this turns out. 

Now that we've got their histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate on how one of the thousands of simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how this fight could play out. Agent NK, what are the rules of our speculation? 

Well, I should say there are no rules. The teams must earn victory on their own merit. 

Alright, then let's get into it. Birds of Prey and A-Force meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I think Black Canary would go first. So, right away, she's gonna blast all of them with a Canary cry, sending all of them flying backward. No, because Dazzler, she's at the front of the team when this happens, and she's gonna absorb the entirety of Black Canary's Canary cry. 

And, like, you just amped Dazzler up to, like, 11. She turns all of that sound energy into light energy, and she spins around on her roller skates and, you know, strikes a pose, and she's like, let's go, girls! And, like, cue the EDM music, because this fight just turned into a dance rave, and A-Force is gonna charge at the Birds of Prey while Dazzler is shooting out these laser lights, and these lasers are gonna, like, cut Black Girl's utility belt in half, and one of Hawk Girl's wings just gets clipped, and I'm pretty sure that Power Girl is bald now. She was given a laser haircut. 

Okay, I saw this coming. Not the haircut. I mean, Power Girl has Kryptonian hair, so... But you're dealing with some of the most agile characters in DC with the Birds of Prey team. So they're actually dodging Dazzler's lasers with, like, flips and shit, and Black Girl's gonna counter with a smoke pellet, hiding her team, so Dazzler and the rest of A-Force can't see where the Birds of Prey are. All they're gonna see is a set of glowing tiger eyes just before Vixen leaps out of the smoke with a tiger aura, pouncing on Niko Minoru and just slashing her ribbons. Okay, alright, well, okay. Niko gets hurt, but before she gets turned into ribbons, that's when She-Hulk leaps in, just straight up grabs Vixen by her waistband and throws her into space. 

Okay. And then Niko casts a healing spell on herself using the Staff of One. She's gonna say, like, Medic, and she's good to go. She's back in this fight. Meanwhile, Captain Marvel is gonna energize her body to, like, light her way through this smoke screen that Batgirl created, and she sees Power Girl, and she's gonna give her one of those good old-fashioned energy-powered punches right in her face, sending her reeling backward. Oh, it's Power Girl, so yeah, she'll take the punch and then she's gonna give as good as she got right back towards Captain Marvel, so they're just gonna start trading blows in the sky, I guess. 

Okay, alright. Speaking of sky, Miss Marvel is gonna stretch, like, 50 feet tall, and with this embigged hand, she's just gonna backhand Hawk Girl and swat her out of the sky, sending her crashing into the ground. Okay, well, yeah, Hawk Girl probably was in the sky, but her enhanced senses actually alerted her to Miss Marvel's attack, so she's just gonna loop right around that giant hand and slam Miss Marvel right in the face with her energized mace that's gonna cause her giant body to fall and crash into the ground. Alright, Miss Marvel's nose is probably caved in, but she's elastic, right? So she's gonna topple down to the ground, she catches her fall by creating a purple construct to cushion it, and while she's, like, reforming her nose, healing that up, she's gonna throw up another purple energy construct in the air, like a wall that Hawk Girl just flies into, like a bird into a window, alright, and it just cracks her neck, probably one of her wings. 

Jeez. Hawk Girl falls to the ground, like, splat, and she is out of this match. What? Dang, okay. Um, I guess she's out. Meanwhile, Huntress, she fires a bolt from her crossbow at Mockingbird right through her foot, and that's gonna pin Mockingbird right to the ground. No, because Mockingbird knocks this crossbow bolt out of the air with one of her battle staves, and then she's gonna screw her clubs together to form one long staff that she's gonna use to vault herself over to Huntress and, like, leap, snap, kick her right in the back of her head. Yeah, except Huntress blocks Mockingbird's kick with her own bow staff, and the two face off using their own staffs. 

It's like two windmills fighting against each other. Eventually, though, Huntress is gonna get in close enough to fire a quick crossbow bolt point blank into Mockingbird's chest, eliminating her from the match. And now Huntress has two staffs that she can dual-wheel like a badass. Dual-wielding two staffs? Like a badass. But I would really love to see what those bow staffs can do against someone as durable and strong as Spider Woman, who glides in and she's gonna block Huntress' staff attack with just her forearm before backflip kicking Huntress right in the chin with enough strength to knock her unconscious, and now Huntress is out of this match. So sorry about that fancy dual-wield. 

Didn't go anywhere. All right, well, I mean, Black Canary saw what happened to her friend, so she's gonna blast Spider Woman with a targeted Canary cry that's gonna obliterate her eardrums and just disorient her. And then Black Canary's gonna grab Spider Woman with this like Sonia Blade-esque forward handspring leg grapple, and she's gonna drive Spider Woman's head right into the ground right before she chokes Spider Woman out between her fishnet clad thighs. 

Yeah, all right. I think that is statistically the best way to go out of this match, except that Spider Woman doesn't get choked out because she emits these pheromones, right, that pacify Black Canary into loosening her grip. And then Spider Woman just venom blasts her, stunning her with enough electricity to take her out of the match. Okay, well, Power Girl and Captain Marvel, you know, they're probably still brawling above the battlefield. And when Miss Marvel tries to intervene to help her mentor, Power Girl freezes her with her super breath and then dashes right through Miss Marvel, shattering her into a thousand pieces. She's out. 

Damn, that's a bold move. Like Captain Marvel, she's gonna be shocked by that and enraged and she's gonna straight up super sane Kamehameha Power Girl's ass with a blast that's gonna knock her down to the ground right into She-Hulk's fists. Okay, that's some A-Force teamwork right there. And Captain Marvel and She-Hulk are gonna team up and lay a straight up beatdown on Power Girl, knocking her further and further into a crater that gets deeper with each hit and Power Girl eventually just goes limp. She can't take any more. She's out. 

No, dang. All right, well, while Captain Marvel and She-Hulk are in the hole, Dove's gonna swoop in and emit her pacifying light aura, which is gonna cause She-Hulk to transform back into Jennifer Walters and Captain Marvel just, you know, to calm the fuck down. At which point, Batgirl's gonna drop down a bat grenade into the crater, which detonates right after Dove flies out of the hole, killing Jennifer. That's Bird's a prey teamwork. 

Yeah, I don't like that teamwork. But, uh, Nico, in retaliation for what Batgirl did, she's gonna yell out, Basubius, with her staff of one, which is gonna erupt a little mini-volcano from the ground that's beneath Batgirl and it's gonna explode Batgirl up into the air and just burn her alive within the fountain of lava. Wait, so there's like lava around the environment now? Oh, just a pool of it where the mini-volcano was. 

Okay. All right, well, Vixen, she managed to survive space by summoning the survival abilities of a tardigrade and so she's fallen back to Earth after She-Hulk's throw and she's gonna summon the power of a falcon to quickly dive right toward Nico and then at the last minute, harness the weight of a whale to land on Nico who just splatters everywhere. And meanwhile, Dove's going to blind Spider-Woman with a flash of light. So now Spider-Woman's blind and deaf, you know, thanks to Black Canaries attack earlier. So Spider-Woman, she's gonna stubble into that pool of lava from the mini-volcano created by Nico and just burn to death. Uh, Dazzler then is gonna skate over on her roller skates and we'll say that she absorbed the sound of the mini-volcano eruption. So she's juiced, you know, and she fires a light beam that just punches the hole straight through Dove's torso and now Dove's out. Now actually, Dove has a danger sense. So she's gonna dodge Dazzler's attack and then quickly like slide tackle her legs to trip Dazzler on her skates. So Dazzler just topples face first right onto Hawke girl's mace and knocks herself out. What? 

Why are all my guys going out like punk asses? Like, why is Dove only getting people to take themselves out? Well, she's a pacifist. 

Okay. Well, you know who's not a pacifist? Captain Marvel and she's had it with Dove's shit. She's gonna swoop in like a comet super fast, lift Dove into the sky with her arms above her head and then straight up dive power bomb Dove into the ground. 

She's dead. No, no, Dove has a pacifying aura. Yeah, but Captain Marvel already knew that from earlier with She-Hulk. So Captain Marvel acted quickly, like I said, a comet like swoop slam. Whatever. 

Okay. Captain Marvel, you know, she's gonna look around for the final bird of prey, which is Vixen. But oh no, looks like she doesn't see her. That's because Vixen is using the camouflage powers of a squid to make yourself basically invisible. And when Captain Marvel isn't looking, that's when Vixen combines the abilities of a dung beetle, which is really strong, like it could lift over 1000 times its weight and a mantis shrimp, which could strike at the speed of a bullet to land a killing blow right in the back of Captain Marvel's head. 

Boom, match over. How many animals is Vixen using for this move here? Three. 

Mantis shrimp and a dung beetle? Yeah, it's pretty shitty. Literally. 

Okay. Captain Marvel feels this little love tap on the back of her head and she's gonna turn around like, bitch. And then she's gonna fly and uppercut Vixen into Red Mist. That's how the match ends. 

Love tap. Dude, do not underestimate the power of the mantis shrimp. It's called a shrimp for a reason. All right. 

It's shrimpy. Right. It's not going to hurt Captain Marvel proportionately. Yes, the hell it is. Okay. Well, we'll go ahead and leave the match there. Either Vixen mantis shrimp dung beetle punches Captain Marvel on the back of the head, or Captain Marvel literally just uppercuts Vixen, exploding her into oblivion. Let's go ahead and input the stats for these teams, run the simulations and find out which scenario happens. Agenenke, hit it. 

Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. 

All right. Full disclosure, guys. For this particular matchup, a lot of the executive producers weren't convinced that the Birds of Prey were going to be powerful enough to go up against a force. So at one point, we thought it might work to have Jessica Cruz on the Birds of Prey team, which I didn't love because Jessica Cruz has never been a member of the Birds of Prey. But we thought it would help balance things out. Yeah. When we ran the stats though, like Green Lanterns are so impressive statistically that not only did Jessica Cruz end up being the most powerful member out of either of the teams, but she also raised the value of the team to the point where it was unfair. 

Because despite what people may think, Birds of Prey are quite impressive statistically, at least when it comes to fighting skill and intelligence and perception. Yeah, they're pretty well rounded characters, which was surprising to see. Like you definitely had the most powerful character out of either team in Captain Marvel. And for the most part, like your characters were way stronger than mine in terms of strength and damage. Yeah, that's definitely what my team excelled at, especially with characters like Dazzler and Nico Minoru and Ms. Marvel. 

They were really good in terms of like range and damage potential and not a whole lot else. Although because of Ms. Marvel's construct shielding and Dazzler's energy shielding and Nico Minoru's magic shields, A-Force did come out slightly ahead in evasiveness. I didn't use nearly enough shields in that speculation. But thankfully my team was faster and more perceptive. Yeah, in terms of speed, you had Power Girl and Dove who are like really fucking fast. Also, Hawk Girl was really fast and so was Vixen. 

Really the fastest person on my team was Captain Marvel and everybody else was just okay in terms of movement speed. When it came to perception, like you said, Power Girl has multiple advanced senses. So does Vixen. Dove has her dangerous sense. And the ladies in A-Force, you know, you have Spider Woman with her acute hearing and Captain Marvel with her cosmic awareness. 

But everybody else on my team basically just had their eyes and ears. Right. So taking all of this into account, Joseph, who do you think came out on top? A-Force. 

Final answer. I think Instagram is backing me up on this one too. They are. I put the poll up pretty late, but so far it looks like 62% of our Instagram followers who voted are siding with A-Force. But let's see if they actually get the win. NK, the results please. Here you are, sir. 

The winner of the TeamDuel matchup between Birds of Prey and A-Force is Birds of Prey. Bullshit. Bullshit. 

Birds of Prey, motherfucker. Run the stats again. Run them again. 

We already ran thousands. How is that possible? I am as surprised as you are. But it looks like based on these results, Birds of Prey wins 51.4% of the matches compared to A-Force who won 48.6. 

That's really close. I still don't buy it. Not going to lie, I did not see this coming. My guys are powerful. Yeah, your guys are smarter, but what are they going to do? 

Just like outsmart my guys? Well, it looks like the biggest discrepancy came down to fighting skill. Like, my guys are way better fighters. Some of the best fighters in DC with characters like Black Canary. Well, I have Mockingbird on my team. 

And? She's the best fighter on my team. But why do you need fighting skill when you have raw energy power? 

Why do you need raw energy power when you have raw intelligence? Backroll was by far the smartest member out of either team. She really leveled up my team in that regard. And actually, one of Dove's superpowers is that she has enhanced intelligence. 

It just makes me think that while the final results were close, Birds of Prey were able to execute teamwork, cheap shot tactics over the A-Force who isn't quite as cohesive a team, maybe. Yeah, well, I mean, if I had to choose a team leader between Batgirl and She-Hulk, it would definitely be Batgirl. She's much more of a strategic mind. Well, She-Hulk won a little over half of all of her matches, whereas Batgirl won just over a third of her matches. Actually, the person with the highest win rate was Captain Marvel, winning a little over 84% of all of her fights, followed by Powergirl, who won 80%. 

Which makes sense, because like I have She-Hulk on my team, Captain Marvel, they'll definitely put up more of a fight than some of my other characters. You also had the character with the lowest win rate, which was Mockingbird. That's right, she really dragged down my team, for sure. I think maybe I should have replaced her with someone else. How am I going to bring a chicken to this fight with two metal poles going up against essentially Supergirl? 

Yeah, the original Supergirl. I don't know what to say, man. I eeked this one out, but boy, am I glad I did. Here's to all the Lady DC fans. 

This one's for you. For Women's History Month, DC is going down in history as the winners. It's not history in March, man. It's called herstory. Okay? Get it right. That does it for this duel. A.J. and N.K. help close us out. 

Don't forget to listen to the other shows in the Dynamite podcast network, including Max Destruction, Senjo World, and Console Combat. 

In our next episode, we will be doing a review. This time of the direct-to-video DC animated film Batman Ninja vs. Yakuza League. I cannot wait to see it. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I think it's going to be fun. 

I hope it sucks, but that does it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers, John Strausky, Zachary Hepburn, Mickey Mata-Gian, Brandon Essigard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Aitin, Austin Wieselowski, A.J. Dunkerly, Nick Abonto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spees, Dean Moleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Leiner, Mike Williams, and Oscar Galvez for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away. True believers. I love women's.