Black Mask vs Madame Masque

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This is a Dyna Mike Network podcast. Hey guys, Johnny DC here at the top of the episode to say happy Thanksgiving. And in celebration of the holidays, we are giving all of our listeners a discount code to get 10% off anything in our store for the next two weeks. That's right, if you use the code dual10 at checkout by going to dynamicdual.com and clicking on the store button and shopping, you'll get 10% off your entire order.

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And remember that we are donating 10% of all of our proceeds through the months of November and December to Stand Up to Cancer, a charity dedicated to cancer research. So support the show, support a great cause, support your wallets by getting 10% off using Codedual10 at checkout. And again, visit dynamicdual.com and click on the store button. Thanks guys, on with the show.

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Dynamic dual Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters and stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are doing a dual between the Batman street level mobster villain Black Mask and the high tech mafia queen, Madame Masque from Marvel. Yeah, she's primarily an Iron Man villain, but she's also been a prominent villain for like Kate Bishop Hawkeye.

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Of course, the stool is a tie-in to the Penguin review that we did last week, because Black Mask is a Batman villain that fits into that crime mobster type world. That's right. And we're going to find out who's going to win between those two characters later on in this episode. Before that, we're going to break down the comic book movie news from the past week, of which there was finally some DC news. We learned that a Sergeant Rock film is in development with Luca Guadagnino and Daniel Craig. You son of a bitch.

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James Bond himself! You'd love to see it! All these Bond actors working for DC, I just don't understand it, but we'll talk about it later on. I guess I can't really call you a son of a bitch without Diss and Mom, so... Yeah. I retract that last statement. Yay, you! Love you, Mom! As always, guys, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent dual simulator, AJ9K, has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up.

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Why hello there, do you want even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic dual community on Patreon, where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic two-oh tier gives you access to our Discord chat server. The fantastic four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly,

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The Diner Mike podcast network tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicdualpodcast at gmail.com. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic dual. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks, AJ and NK. And thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. And especially thank you to not only.

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patrons and executive producers of the show, but also members of the DynaMic Podcast Network, another set of awesome twins, Scott and Gil Camacho. It was their birthday this past week. Happy birthday, guys. Gil, if I could get you any gift from Marvel for your birthday, I would get you a gamma bomb because you could use it to get the powers of the Hulk and then you'd be frigging the Hulk. So yeah, that'd be awesome. Wait, you're saying you want to blow him up? What? No, no, no. You just get bombarded by the radiation. You know how it goes. You know how it goes.

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Damn, tell Gilly how you really feel. No, it's fine. He just has to detonate it from a safe distance. Okay, sure. And I will get Scotty, the DC fan, and the superior twin, the Batcave. Specifically, the trophy room area for you to store all of your cool collectible stuff. Yeah, that's not as cool as Hulk powers, so I think Gilly won out here. It's cooler than being blown up by a bomb. Ha ha ha ha.

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Thanks, Gillie and Scotty, so much for being as cool as you are, and again, happy birthday. But speaking of Scotty and Gillie, be sure to tune in to their show on the DynaMic podcast network, Max Destruction, which pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other. Both hosts are taking a short break for the holidays, so this is the perfect time to get caught up on their back catalog of episodes if you've missed any. On the Senjou World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga characters.

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Zach is back with an all new episode this week. He's going to pick Kaido, the king of beasts from One Piece against AcnoLogia, the dragon king from Fairy Tale. And on the console, combat podcast hosts John and Dean simile battles between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode, they found out who would win between Astro Bot and Sackboy from Little Big Planet. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all the shows and the DynaMic Podcast Network.

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But with that out of the way, quick to the No Prize! A No Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic dual No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week, we asked you guys, what has been your favorite animated Marvel or DC project of all time and why? And this was coming off of the first official trailer that we got for What If Season 3, which is coming out in just a few weeks.

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We got a lot of great answers and actually a lot of people gave the same answer. So it was really hard to pick winners this time around, but we have three honorable mentions as well as the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Cyrus Moore who said, Hey guys, Cyrus Moore here. My favorite animated show of all time will always be Young Justice. I grew up as a kid watching it all the time, very religiously, the action in it's phenomenal. The storylines phenomenal.

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the romance between Miss Martian and Superboy, just everything about that TV show is captivating. It's got something for everybody and everybody should love that show. Yeah, Young Justice, it's a fantastic show. All of the seasons have just gotten better one after the other. The world building that they do in this show as its own Young Justice universe is phenomenal and totally ranks right up there with other large ensemble shows like Justice League.

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Yeah, apparently Young Justice is so good that two other people gave the same answer, including Scott Camacho and Mickey Mantlingian. Apparently I need to start watching Young Justice. Yeah, we've never reviewed it on this show because the episode count and the seasons are so long and it hasn't consistently been released on any platform, but maybe if they make another season we will. We'll see. Great answer, Cyrus. Our next honorable mention goes to Mason Thompson. Who said? Hey guys, I think.

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My favorite animated project from Marvel DC is gonna have to be Batman Beyond because I think they just took so many cool concepts With like future Batman villains. It was just awesome. I think that it was ahead of its time literally Get it get it. Alright. See ya. The whispering notwithstanding Batman Beyond is a great answer. Yeah, I feel like we're being trolled with the whispering by this point

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I loved Batman Beyond. I still remember as a kid watching the premiere of that show and just loving everything about it. I thought it was the coolest show that had ever been made. And it may have been, in fact. In terms of just cool factor, yeah, I would have to agree with you. It was such a cool concept. Like this super high-tech futuristic Batman as a young guy but still being able to fit Bruce Wayne into the story, like every episode.

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There are a lot of future versions of Batman, like the Dark Knight, but Batman Beyond may be my favorite. Yeah, we did a dual episode with Batman Beyond against Spider-Man 2099, so if you're interested in those characters, definitely check out that dual episode, because that was a lot of fun. Great answer, Mason Thompson. Our next honorable mention goes to Travis Herndon, who said...

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What's up Dynamin' Dudes, Travis here, shout out to my Able Twins. So my answer would have to be the Hope vs Wolverine animated movie. I think that movie was cool, it was bloody, it had a badass fight between these two legendary characters. Nolan North as Deadpool was awesome, and honestly, I'm hoping that we get something like this within the MCU one day between Wolverine and the more savage Hulk.

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Yet we nearly reviewed Hulk vs. and lead up to the Deadpool and Wolverine movie that came out during the summer because of course the Hulk vs. famously has a Deadpool vs. Wolverine fight scene in addition to Hulk vs. Wolverine and also packaged with that film if you can find that film anywhere in cheese is Thor vs. Hulk. I think the only reason we didn't end up reviewing Hulk vs. was because it was not easily findable outside of the Blu-ray or DVD media.

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Yeah, I've never seen Hulk versus I've heard great things, but the fact that Marvel can't respect their own characters and projects enough to have available for streamers on any kind of streaming platform just shows you how sucky Marvel is. Well, you would think it would be on Disney Plus, right? But it's not. I wonder why. I think because Universal co-owns the film rights to the Hulk, so that might be it. Or at least they did, but it might have something to do with that. Gotcha, that actually makes a lot of sense.

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We want to give a quick shout out to Peter Troll, who gave the answer of Spectacular Spider-Man and to Colby Hentges and Gil Camacho, who both answered with X-Men, the animated series and X-Men 97. But the winner of this week's No Prize is Mike Williams, who said, Best animated DC would have to be Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. Great stories and great way to inculcate other characters. As far as Marvel, I would have to go with

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X-Men and X-Men 97. Really like the animation drawings and the storylines they presented there. And as always, make mine Marvel. Take care. Yeah, Justice League Unlimited is like peak Bruce Tim universe. It introduced us to so many characters that a lot of the public isn't familiar with, but as comic fans, I just loved seeing all of them. It was a great episodic series as well, in the same vein as the Saturday morning cartoons that we would watch as a kid. It was tailor-made for the audience, and like the true successor,

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of a show like Super Friends that a previous generation grew up watching. Yeah, and he also mentioned X-Men the Animated Series and X-Men 97. It goes without saying that that series is probably the best superhero animated show of all time. You know, we had two other people give the answer of X-Men 97, and like we gave that season five stars out of five. It's like the quintessential X-Men experience. So you could do no wrong with that answer.

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Where Michael Williams went right in terms of this week's No Prize win was that he packaged together Justice League and X-Men, which were probably the paragons of each universe's respective animated series. At least for 90s kids like us, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Great answer, Michael Williams. You win this week's No Prize. If you the listener want a shot at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another Question of the Week. Another That's Done? On to the news!

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Alright, in a bit of news that I swore we've talked about before, filmmaker Luca Guadagnino is developing a Sergeant Rock film with Daniel Craig, who will potentially play the lead character. If you're not familiar with Luca Guadagnino, he's an amazing director. He's directed films such as Call Me By Your Name, Suspiria, Bones and All, Challengers, and the upcoming queer film, which also stars Daniel Craig. And if you're not familiar with Daniel Craig...

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then where have you been? Because the guy is fucking 007 James Bond. And if he gets this role of Sergeant Rock, I will probably never forgive you, Jonathan. Okay, I'm fine with that. You stole Timothy Dalton, he was the chief in the Doom Patrol series, he was a fantastic chief. You stole Pierce Brosnan, who was Dr. Fate in the Black Adam movie. You're damn right. You had Sean Connery.

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in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie, which was actually a DC imprint. Yeah, that's correct. So you've had all these tremendous Bond actors play DC roles. Zero Bond actors have played a Marvel role so far. And if you have listened to this podcast for a while, you know that in addition to me being a Marvel fan, I'm also a huge James Bond fan. So like if Daniel Craig becomes Sergeant Rock and this movie is as amazing as it sounds, like it's like Saving Private Ryan with Sergeant Rock and Daniel Craig or something like that.

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I'm going to end this podcast and probably never talk to you again. I kind of consider Adam West to be the American Roger Moore because they look like brothers. So there's that. Well, Roger Moore, unfortunately, never got a chance to play either a Marvel or DC character, but I'd like to think that he would have played a Marvel character if he got a chance to. Well, the odds are against you, my friend, because apparently all the James Bond guys like DC. Now, no deal has been signed between Luca and DC Studios.

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James Gunn and Peter Safran, so it's not official, but because it's being reported by the trades, odds are more than likely that it will be happening. The film apparently already has a script written by the same screenwriter who wrote Challengers and Queer for Luca Guadagnino. Do you think Daniel Craig would make a good Sergeant Rock? Yeah, I think he'll make a fine Sergeant Rock. Sergeant Rock is a World War II character in DC Comics, so essentially this film would just be a war movie.

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There have been other adaptations of Sgt. Rock, like the animated short where he led the creature commandos. So I don't know if they would tie that into this film in any way. I imagine not. It may just be a really solid World War II movie. And I'll take it. I wish Marvel would do something like that. Well, I guess we had Captain America the First Avenger. That was a World War II movie. But not like in a realistic, gritty sense. It was very much in like a diesel punk, fantastical type of World War II setting.

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Yeah, I don't think this would be anything like that. It's definitely not Lucas Highbrow style, but because of that, it makes me really look forward to see what he could do with the World War II movie. It just sounds like it would be very rated R. Probably the most rated R war movie ever made. Next to like Inglorious Basterds or something like that. I also hope it really happens because Daniel Craig is attached to it and because he played James Bond and because I know that would break your heart. That would be funny to me. If it happens.

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I will immediately rip my clothes, fall down onto my knees, and fly the stars. I swear. What? I don't know, like, where that was going. I was going for, like, a real dramatic type feeling, but yeah, you took that in a different direction. Anyway, the news about Daniel Craig potentially becoming Sergeant Rock brings us to our question of the week.

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What Marvel character would you cast former 007 actor George Lazenby as and why? Now, George Lazenby is the only other 007 actor that's alive that has yet to play a Marvel or DC movie. He was only in one James Bond film and that was On Her Majesty's Secret Service. But, if you take a look at the guy, think about what Marvel role he could play, and then my goal is to start campaigning Marvel to hire George Lazenby as that character.

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So think about it guys, and record your answer at dynamicdual.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer, and award that person a Dynamic dual No Prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before December 7th. You guys have two weeks for this one, because Jonathan and I are recording the next episode early.

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due to the holidays and some business travel.

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That does it for the news for this episode. So let's go ahead and move on to the main event where we find out who would win in a match between Black Mask and Madam Mask.

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Okay, Black Mask versus Meta Mask. As we mentioned earlier, these are two mobster characters who both literally wear masks. Black Mask wears a ebony black skull mask carved from the coffin of his father, which is badass. And Meta Mask wears just a plain boring ass gold mask. I would not describe it as boring. It's pretty badass. It's made out of gold. It's featureless, except for her eyes. You know, it's really mysterious and totally awesome.

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Yeah, I see that and I'm not scared. I see black mask and I'm shitting myself. Well, you just have a poor constitution then and probably irritable bowel syndrome.

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Of course, Block Mask has been in a movie. He was the main antagonist in Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey, or I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Birds of Prey and the fantibulous emancipation of one Harley Quinn. Oh God. Madame Masque has not been in a Marvel movie, but the version of the character, Whitney Frost, was in Agent Carter season two. Oh, I didn't know that. Did she wear a gold mask? No, which is why it was kind of a lame adaptation. Dumb. Well, hopefully we do the character justice here.

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But before we get into our match to explain the methodology behind our duals, let's go to our sentient dual simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ9K, tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our dual matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the contestants is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case,

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I randomise the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters' statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character.

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Contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner.

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Thanks AJ9K, before we run the simulations though we'd like to break down each character's history and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to go first with the DC characters backstory, so let me tell you about Black Mask. Now Roman Sionis was born into Gotham City's wealthy elite, but his privileged life masked deep dysfunction. His parents, obsessed with maintaining their social standing.

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showed little genuine affection for their son. This neglect continued throughout his childhood, with Roman forced to adhere to the same public facade as his parents. Roman's parents maintained social ties with the Waynes despite privately resenting them, and Roman was forced into a friendship with a young Bruce Wayne. And though Bruce Wayne was polite and kind, Roman could sense the genuine bond Bruce shared with his parents, which only amplified Roman's bitterness toward his own family.

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Roman masked his jealousy behind a shallow camaraderie, but deep down he despised Bruce's seemingly perfect life, seeing it as a reflection of everything he lacked. Roman grew to hate the, quote-unquote, masks his parents wore to conceal their true selves, and he developed a lifelong fascination with masks as symbols of identity. As an adult, Roman joined Janus Cosmetics, his father's company, quickly rising to vice president.

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Roman fell in love with a working-class model named Cersei, but his parents forced him to end the relationship. Enraged, Roman retaliated by burning down the family mansion, killing his parents, and inheriting their fortune. With complete control of Janus Cosmetics, Roman initially enjoyed success, but his lack of business acumen led to disaster. He launched a defective makeup line that disfigured hundreds of customers.

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The lawsuits bankrupted the company and destroyed its reputation. Bruce Wayne, head of Wayne Enterprises, offered a bailout, but only if Roman relinquished control of the company. Humiliated, Roman blamed Wayne for his failures, and in a fit of rage, he smashed his father's ebony coffin in the Sionis family crypt and carved a mask from its lid, transforming himself into Black Mask.

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for his personal and professional failures. As Black Mask, Roman established himself as one of Gotham's most feared crime lords. He founded the False Face Society, a criminal gang whose members wore distinctive masks, hand-picked by Roman to reflect their personalities. From their base in the Sionis family crypt, the False Face Society launched a crime spree across Gotham, drawing the attention of both law enforcement and Batman.

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One of Roman's early crimes involved targeting Wayne Foundation executives. Using the toxic cosmetics that had ruined his company, Black Mask disfigured and killed three executives. He also kidnapped Cersei, his former fiance, and forced her to wear a mannequin-like mask laced with a diluted version of the toxic makeup, permanently disfiguring her face. To humiliate her further, Roman made Cersei his unwilling accomplice.

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After deducing Black Mask's identity, Batman set a trap to capture him by hosting a masquerade ball at Wayne Manor, knowing Roman would be unable to resist the opportunity to strike. Roman infiltrated the event with Cersei as his date and lured Bruce into the conservatory, intending to kill him. However, Bruce disarmed Roman, forcing him to flee. Batman and Robin tracked Black Mask to the Cionis crypt, where they defeated his gang.

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Roman escaped through a hidden passage accessed through the false bottom of his father's coffin and fled to his family's rebuilt estate, which he set ablaze again in an attempt to sever his ties to his former identity. During a confrontation with Batman, Roman fell face-first into the flames, refusing the ebony mask to his face. Severely disfigured but alive, Roman was apprehended and sent to Arkham Asylum.

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Roman eventually escaped Arkham and resumed his criminal activities. He reassembled the False Face Society and began a series of arsons targeting Wayne Enterprise properties. Batman infiltrated the gang under the alias Skull Face, posing as a new recruit. Roman, impressed by Skull Face's skills, tasked him with assisting in various crimes. However, when Lucius Fox was kidnapped, Batman revealed his true identity and rescued Fox, though Black Mask escaped.

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Roman's vendetta against Wayne and Batman continued, driving his gang to more audacious crimes. During the No Man's Land crisis when Gotham City was devastated by an earthquake and declared uninhabitable, Roman seized control of the Fashion District and rebranded his gang as the True-Facers, a nihilistic cult. Rejecting wealth and power, Roman embraced a philosophy of destruction, claiming Gotham's devastation revealed its quote-unquote true face.

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The true-facers disfigured themselves and their victims, spreading terror through the ruined city. Roman targeted Oracle's clock tower, planning to dismantle the remnants of organized resistance. However, Batgirl intervened, breaking Roman's arm and dismantling his cult. Roman was subsequently imprisoned in Blackgate Penitentiary. After Gotham's reconstruction, Roman resurfaced during a Gotham gang war known as the War Games.

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Exploiting a gang war triggered by the Gotham vigilante known as Spoiler, Roman rebuilt his criminal empire. He murdered Orpheus, a gang leader secretly allied with Batman, and assumed Orpheus' identity to manipulate Gotham's underworld. Roman's machinations made him the undisputed king of Gotham's crime scene. However, Spoiler escaped his clutches, and Batman exposed his deception.

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which instead returned him to Oracle's Clock Tower. Though he survived Oracle's self-destruct trap, Spoiler did not survive the injuries she sustained while tortured by Black Mask. The gang war subsided shortly after, and Roman's empire began to fracture. Roman's reign of terror continued until he faced the Red Hood, who targeted his operations in a calculated campaign to dismantle his criminal empire.

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Despite Roman's alliances with figures like Mr. Freeze and Deathstroke, the Red Hood's relentless attacks destabilized his control. Roman's efforts to consolidate power ultimately failed, culminating in his defeat at the hands of Batman and the Red Hood. Roman eventually attempted to rebuild his empire, shifting his focus to Gotham's East End, where he sought to control the drug trade. This brought him into conflict with Catwoman, the self-appointed protector of the area.

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Roman retaliated against Catwoman's interference by targeting her loved ones. He kidnapped her sister Maggie and tortured her brother-in-law Simon to death. Roman forced Maggie to consume parts of Simon's corpse, leaving her mentally shattered. Enraged, Catwoman confronted Roman in his penthouse. Their battle ended with Catwoman shooting Roman in the head, killing him. During the Blackest Night, in which dead heroes and villains of the past were resurrected

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Roman used his Black Lantern powers to torment Catwoman further, desecrating her sister's mental institution and creating torture chambers. However, Roman's rampage ended when Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn joined forces with Catwoman to neutralize him. Trapped in a carnivorous plant, Roman's Black Lantern form was dissolved. In post-Flashpoint continuity, Roman Sionis returned as Black Mask, though he was reimagined as a man with Dissociative Identity Disorder.

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his black mask persona exerting dominance over his psyche. His signature ebony mask gained technological upgrades, granting him the ability to control the minds of weaker-minded individuals. While imprisoned in Arkham Asylum, Roman orchestrated a mass breakout during the Night of Owls, using his mind control abilities to manipulate inmates into attacking the Court of Owl's assassins. Roman escaped Arkham and reassembled the False Face Society.

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reigniting a violent rivalry with the Mad Hatter, another villain known for mind control. Their feud drew the attention of Batman, who defeated both men and destroyed Roman's mask, temporarily neutralizing his abilities. Over time, Roman regained his status as one of Gotham's top crime bosses. He aligned with the Penguin and Great White Shark in the Blacks and Whites Alliance, a coalition seeking to consolidate Gotham's criminal enterprises.

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Roman also sought to use his advanced technology, including a techno-organic virus, to gain an edge over his rivals. This led to a confrontation with Red Hood, who infiltrated Roman's masked organization under the guise of an ally and exposed Roman's operations, turning Roman's own resources against him. Alongside Artemis and Bizarro, Red Hood dismantled Roman's empire, forcing a final confrontation.

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but the plan backfired, leaving him mentally incapacitated and defeated. That's Black Mask's history so far. Power-wise, Black Mask's Ebony Mask grants him a degree of mental influence over others, as well as protection for his head. He's a criminal mastermind with access to a vast fortune and resources, including weaponry. An expert marksman, Black Mask carries several handguns, which he'll have in this match, along with a classic mobster tommy gun.

29:39
He's in peak human physical condition and is a competent fighter. When you were describing his backstory, the part where he disfigured his ex-fiance with the mask, it made me think that Tim Burton's 1989 Batman film with Jack Nicholson's Joker took inspiration maybe from Black Mask because there was that scene where Joker scarred the face of Grisham's girl, right? Right. And she wore that like white mannequin mask.

30:06
Yeah, you could definitely say that also because of the fact that Joker attacked Gotham with tainted cosmetics. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Okay. Black Mask was created in 1985, I believe. So that could absolutely be the case that he inspired Burns Joker. Yeah, he was probably on top of mind at that time. So makes sense. Well, I honestly, I think the characters of Black Mask and Madam Mask have even more in common than I realized. And let me go ahead and tell you all about Madam Mask.

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Born as Julieta Neferia, Madam Mask was introduced to a life of deception from the start. Her father, Count Lucino Neferia, was a powerful crime lord in the Magia, a shadowy crime syndicate resembling the Mafia based in New York City. Count Neferia desired a different path for his daughter, a respectable life unmarred by the criminal underworld that defined his own. Thus, he gave her up to Brian Frost, a trusted employee, and his wife Loretta, who raised

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Whitney Frost. Whitney grew up as a sophisticated debutante and socialite, moving in elite circles and building connections for what she thought would be a prosperous, legitimate life. She eventually became engaged to an ambitious politician, Roger Vane. However, her life was shattered when her adoptive parents passed away and Count Nefaria re-entered her life, revealing her true heritage and offering her a place in the Magia. Initially horrified, Whitney turned to her fiance Roger for support.

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only to find him unwilling to risk his career for her criminal connections. Heartbroken and betrayed, she reluctantly accepted her father's offer, leaving behind her privileged life to learn the brutal arts of strategy, combat, and manipulation under Neferia's guidance. Whitney proved to be a natural in the criminal world, quickly ascending to become the leader of the Neferia family within Demagia, adopting the alias Big M. Under this persona, Whitney

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She aimed to infiltrate and raid Stark Industries, crossing paths with Iron Man for the first time. The operation ended in disaster, and as she attempted to escape on a plane, the aircraft crashed and she was left horribly disfigured. Her life was saved by Mordecai Midas, a crime lord with an obsession for gold, who gifted Whitney a golden mask to cover her scars. With her new identity as Madame Masque, Whitney joined Midas' empire and furthered her reputation as a ruthless criminal.

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In a fateful twist, Madame Masque met Tony Stark, Iron Man's alter ego, and was drawn to him despite her adversarial relationship with his superhero identity. Tony's compassion for her scarred appearance softened her, and Whitney eventually betrayed Midas to save Tony, only to disappear from his life, fearing her past would forever haunt any chance of happiness. You can learn more about Iron Man in his dual against Cyborg.

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Chrissy Longfellow, his secretary. This charade allowed them to rekindle their connection, leading to a romance once their true identities were revealed. Their happiness was cut short when Count Nefaria resurfaced, now on the verge of death from a failed superhuman experiment. Whitney brought her father to Stark, begging him to find a cure. However, Nefaria's violent threats forced Iron Man to confront the crime lord and his minions in a deadly clash. When Nefaria's life support system was damaged during the fight,

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Whitney was struck by overwhelming guilt and descended into madness, severing her ties with Stark and returning to the Magia to reclaim her role as a ruthless leader. As her criminal activities escalated, Madame Masque grew increasingly paranoid, fearing betrayal and weakness. To maintain control, she created bioduplicates of herself, robots and clones to act as her stand-ins and bodyguards. One of these bioduplicates, known simply as Masque,

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developed an independent streak and became an ally to the Avengers, urging Whitney to reconsider her path and join forces with the heroes. The duplicate's nobility led her to sacrifice herself to protect the Avengers and take down Count Nefaria, who had returned with powerful Ionic abilities. This selfless act shook Whitney to her core, as she saw the admiration and mourning from Iron Man and the Avengers, forcing her to confront the nature of her own paranoia and distrust.

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Despite this revelation, she chose not to renounce her criminal past entirely, though she acknowledged her need for change. Years later, Whitney found a new partner and purpose when she became the second in command and lover to Parker Robbins, aka The Hood, a rising figure in New York's criminal underworld. With the superhero community fractured by the Superhuman Registration Act, The Hood saw an opportunity to unite the underworld, using his mystical powers to protect criminals in exchange for their loyalty.

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Madame Masque joined them in battling the New Avengers, though shortly after she fought alongside Earth's heroes to repel the Skrull invasion, briefly aligning herself with humanity's defenders. You can learn more about the Avengers and the Superhuman Registration Act and the Skrull invasion in our Justice League vs Avengers dual episode. Her relationship with the Hood deepened as she supported him during his struggle with demonic possession by Dormammu, and her loyalty was made evident when she finally revealed her disfigured face to him as a symbol of trust.

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Despite this loyalty to the hood, she remained unable to suppress her volatile emotions for Tony Stark, leading to a violent confrontation with Pepper Potts when Norman Osborn put a bounty on Tony Stark's head. In a desperate bid to force Stark's love, she demanded his romantic confession only for Tony to choose Pepper over her. Enraged, she engaged Pepper in the rescue armor in a brutal fight only to be incarcerated. After escaping custody,

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forming alliances and taking on high stakes jobs. She connected again with the Hood, who now wielding the Reality Gem, used its power to heal her facial scars. She traveled to Madripoor, where she bit on a videotape that appeared to blackmail Hawkeye for murder. During this mission, Madame Masque was ambushed by Kate Bishop, who impersonated her in an attempt to recover the tape, and it was destroyed. Furious, Madame Masque vowed revenge on Kate and tracked her to Los Angeles,

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luring the hero into a trap Kate would later escape. In the end, Shields dismantled Mademask's Los Angeles-based operation, leading to her arrest. Upon her release, she joined Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil, acting as his right-hand woman. You can learn more about Kate Bishop in our Batgirl versus Hawkeye dual episode, and more about Baron Zemo in his dual against Lex Luthor. Mademask's interests took a darker turn, and she began collecting magical artifacts to empower herself.

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seeking control over magic as a means of survival and dominance. She raided Castle Doom for the mystical Wand of Votum, engaging in a showdown with Ironman, after which she was possessed by demonic forces. Only a collaboration between Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange saved her as they performed an exorcism and handed her over to S.H.I.E.L.D. custody. After escaping, Mademask orchestrated a brutal gang war in New York, faking her own death in a car explosion set by the Magia Enforcer turned leader.

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Hammerhead. She infiltrated the Magia from within in disguise, capturing Hammerhead and declaring herself the new leader of the organization. Seeking total control of New York's crime scene, she manipulated her rivals through mind control, gathering her forces for a final showdown with the rival gangs. However, Spider-Man and his allies intervened, disrupting her plans as they freed her mind-controlled allies. Despite her careful preparations, she was turned over to authorities by Spider-Man, swearing vengeance against him and her gang

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And that's her backstory. Powers-wise, Madam Mask has no innate superhuman abilities, but is trained and skilled in a variety of arenas. This includes her expertise in gymnastics, martial arts, and marksmanship. She wears a golden mask that can protect her head from psychic intrusion and gunfire. She is a master of disguise, often using her resources to create technological and biological clones of herself for further deception, though for this match she'll employ holographic image-inducers for that effect.

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She carries modified handguns that can fire high caliber bullets, concussive blasts of energy, or sleeping gas cartridges. She is also a master strategist and has dabbled in some magic using artifacts that can induce hypnosis. Her weakness is that she is always extremely paranoid, making her mentally unstable. And there you have it. She has a lot of gadgets and stuff, but I'm not worried. Black Mask's got this because she doesn't have any gadgets to stop bullets. Well she has her mask, her golden mask.

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As does Black Mask. So I guess we're even. A wooden mask is not bulletproof. Not like a gold plated metal mask is. So I don't know how Black Mask's mask is going to stop bullets. But I guess we'll find out. Dude, Ebony is real hard. Yeah, and these are real hard bullets. And you are real hard headed. If you think he's going to win this match. I thought you were going an entirely different route. I'm so glad that you said headed right there. Yes.

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Where fantasies collide and heroes clash, one podcast network rises above the rest. Prepare yourself for the ultimate showdowns in comic books, video games, movies, and anime. The Dynomic Podcast Network presents Console Combat, where video game legends brawl every Monday. Dynamic dual, where comic book titans smash every Tuesday. Max Destruction.

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TV and action heroes battle every Wednesday, and Sendro World, where anime champions clash every Thursday. Join us as we speculate on the matches and armed with the power of mathematical simulations, discover who will emerge victorious. Visit dynamicpodcast.com where we settle the debate and settle the score.

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But now that we've got their histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how this fight could play out. AJ9K, what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For the speculation...

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contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright then let's get into it. Black Mask and Madame Masque meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I think since Black Mask has a Tommy gun, he has to start by just blasting that thing at Madame Masque,

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Say hello to my little friend. All right, so Madam Masks is like, oh shit. And she immediately takes off running. But as she runs, she's going to start creating holographic copies of herself using her image inducer. And soon there's like 15 different Madam Masks on the battlefield. And Black Mask doesn't know which one is real. And he runs out of bullets. OK, so that's when he just pulls out his spare ammo drum from his jacket. He's going to lock that thing into place.

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and just start blasting all of the figures in front of him, just laughing like a maniac. All right, well, his laughing like ha ha ha is gonna turn into ow ow ow, when suddenly the real Madame Masque shoots the Tommy gun with a concussive beam from her handgun, and it's just gonna shatter his Tommy gun, exploding it in Black Mask's hands, and then she's gonna fire another round from a second pistol, this time it's a high caliber bullet, that goes right through one of his knee caps. Oh damn, well.

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Okay, Black Mask, he has a high tolerance for pain. So as he is limping to the side to dodge any more gunfire, he's going to pull out his handgun from his holster and just bullseye Madam Mask right in the forehead, which, you know, isn't going to kill her, but it certainly knocks her out cold. Well, she got shot in the face with her mask on. We'll say she's heavily dazed and on the ground for sure. And while she's on the ground.

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That's when Black Mask is gonna limp over to her and pull out a pair of needle nose pliers, like one of several torture devices he probably keeps on him, which he uses to grab her ear and he starts yanking it to rip it off. That's some sick twisted shit, man. I've honestly, I've seen Black Mask do worse. Well, before he can yank her ear off with pliers, she's gonna snap right out of her fog from being shot.

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She's gonna pull out a magical artifact from her utility belt that looks like a small sundial, which is gonna create this like hypnotic sigil. And she's gonna put Black Mask under a hypnotic trance. And while he's in this like stupor, she's gonna stand up and just start pistol whipping the shit out of him. Calling him a sick fuck and knocking the ebony teeth out of his skull mask and just stomping him in the ribs, cracking him. Well, I mean that would certainly snap-

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Black Mask out of his hypnosis. We'll see that as, you know, Meta Mask is about to stomp his torso again, Black Mask quickly just pulls out a knife and drives into Meta Mask's shin before pulling it out and slicing her other leg's ankle. Okay, so they're basically just reducing each other to crawling and limping for the rest of this match, I guess. Basically. She's gonna fall to the ground, and as Black Mask like tries to crawl over to her,

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Madam Mask is gonna unleash a gas pellet that like fills her vicinity with sleeping gas and that's gonna knock Black Mask out cold. It's not gonna knock her out too? No, she has a mask on. So does he! Yeah, but hers like covers her nose and mouth. Well how does she breathe then? Well like through a respirator in her mask, most likely. Interesting. Anyway, she doesn't get affected by the sleeping gas, he does, he's out cold, that gives her enough time to crawl over to him.

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and she's just going to yank his mask off and finish him off with a shot right through the forehead. Well, I mean, his mask is actually melted onto his face. So it'd be hard to just yank off. That's exactly what she does then. She just rips the whole damn face off. Damn! Just like in that movie. Face off? No, not that one. Guardians of the Galaxy 3? Yep, there you go. That's what I'm talking about. Okay, well, as she's yanking his face off,

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Again, that for sure wakes Black Mask up. You know, he just snaps out of it and he quickly whips out like a small torch from his sleeve and just burns her right in the gut while she's over him. And while she's in shock from this attack, he's going to rip off her mask and allowing him to influence her psychically into taking her own life. Wait, so he has like a mini blowtorch on him. Yeah, like all kinds of like torture gear. OK.

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Well, I think honestly, he'd be in too much pain from getting his face peeled off to do any sort of psychic attack or anything really. So, yeah, I think Madame Masque ends up winning. Well, he couldn't even do the psychic attack if the mask was removed from his face. So this happens before that. She doesn't even get to rip off his mask. And I'm saying she does. So let's go ahead and find out what scenario happens. Either she pills his face off with his mask or he.

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peels her mask off and psychically gets her to off herself. Either way, somebody's mask is coming off. Let's find out which one by inputting the stats, running the simulations and coming back with a winner. AJ9K, hit it. Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. You know, sometimes we do matches on this show, like the Two-Face and Jigsaw one comes to mind, where it's like, we just need therapy afterward. It's just too violent.

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or like Red Hood and Punisher, the characters with guns who like don't have any other powers except for that are not fun to speculate with. Yeah, but I don't know, I think we did as well as we could with these two characters. Statistically they were pretty close to being even. We said they had about the same speed, durability, damage level, fighting skill, intelligence, range, and perception. Yeah, no surprise there. I figured the characters were going to be really similar.

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We did give the edge in evasiveness to Madam Mask as well as the edge in versatility. Yeah, because she is like an Olympic level gymnast and has like magical artifacts and high tech gadgets like sleeping gas pellets and stuff like that. Where Madam Mask had an advantage in agility over Black Mask, Black Mask had a slight advantage in strength. Yeah, the dude was literally able to destroy his father's coffin with a huge rock slab with his bare hands.

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and go toe to toe with Batman. So yeah, dude's jacked. Not like Ewan McGregor at all. But taking all of this into consideration, Joseph, who do you think is gonna get the win? I think Madame Massey is gonna take it. I think she just has a lot going for her in terms of the number of gadgets she has, which I think gives her the versatility to.

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avoid damage and to really cause confusion on the battlefield, whether it's through her duplicates or whether it's through her magical artifacts, something like that, I think is going to put her over the top here. And no one agrees with me. Basically on Instagram, Black Mask clearly won that poll that we've put up there with 69% of the poll takers saying that Black Mask was going to beat Madame Masque. You know why? It's because he's cool. Way cooler than Madame Masque. No one knows who the hell she is.

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Iron Man fans know who Madam Mask is. Yeah, but Iron Man fans are MCU fans and they don't read the comics. They have no idea who she is. I think they do. Well, let's find out if the Instagram poll matches the actual results. AJ9K, the results please. Here you are, sir. All right, the winner of the matchup between Black Mask and Madam Mask is... Madam Mask. She won.

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573 of the 1000 matches or 57.3% of the time compared to Black Mask who only won 42.7. I mean Black Mask might be brutal but he just doesn't have enough brutality to overcome everything that MadamaSK can throw at him. Yeah what gave her the win was definitely her increased versatility and evasiveness. It was something that Black Mask just couldn't compete with. It's actually a higher percentage.

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then I thought she would win by like it's almost 60% which was kind of surprising. Well when you think about it, Black Mask is just a dude with a gun and a black mask. Yeah, that's fair. It's literally in the name what he is. Are you sad? Eh, not really. There are other Batman villains that I'm bigger fans of. He's pretty brutal in the comics, you know, as are a lot of Batman villains, but

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I don't know, he just doesn't have as much character I would say. Yeah, you're sad. I feel like you want me to be more sad. And I'm not going to give you that satisfaction. You know what? I'm happy he lost. I'm proud that he lost. Yeah, what are you going to do? Call you a fake DC fan, I guess. Oh, no, no, no, I am sad. But that does it for this dual. AJ 90K help close this out.

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Thanks for listening to Dynamic Dual. Visit the show's website at dynamicdual.com and follow us on Instagram at dynamicdualpodcast. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash dynamicdual and joining a tier that works for you, or by rating and reviewing Dynamic Dual on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network, including Max Destruction, Senjow World and Console Combat.

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In our next episode, we will be doing another dual, this time between another Batman villain, Copperhead, against a Spider-Man villain, Scorpion. Yeah, we're going with the Spider-Man villain and lead up to the Kraven the Hunter film that is coming out later in December. And Scorpion is one of my favorite Spider-Man villains, so I'm really looking forward to it. So tune in for that next week. That does it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken Johnson.

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John Swarovski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Miggy Mathen-Geehan, Brandon Nestorgarden, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yaiten, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Shunk, Dean Maleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kersting, Josh Leiner, and Mike Williams for helping make this podcast possible. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. Wait, Jim Carrey's The Mask wasn't one of the contenders? I want my money back.