Kingdom Come Superman vs Maestro

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you

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Hi and welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm his twin brother, Johnny DC. And yay Marvelous Joe's back, I guess. Yeah, I'm back from a one-week hiatus due to the birth of my daughter, Ella. And I gotta say, after doing something on a weekly basis for about seven years now,

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It was very weird feeling in the middle of last week when I really set in that I hadn't recorded a podcast episode recently. But that's totally fine because, you know, I was busy changing diapers and bottle feeding and just admiring my little girl. But I'm super glad to be back for what should be a fun episode. This is a multiversal duel. We're pitting Kingdom Come Superman against Maestro. Yeah, Kingdom Come Superman, aka Earth 22 Superman.

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is an older version of Superman from the Kingdom Come Elseworlds miniseries, and Maestro is an alternate version of the Hulk who's older and more badass and villainous, essentially. Right, right. It's the old version of Superman against the old version of the Hulk, basically. Before we plug in their stats and find out which character would win in a fight, we're gonna go over the comic book movie news to come out this past week, including the Justice League Warworld official trailer.

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and the news that Captain America New World Order has changed its name to Captain America Brave New World. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Those of you guys who've listened to our recent episodes will know that our duel simulator has become so advanced that it's gained sentience and has named itself the Artificial Lifeform for running extensive duels, just a rather very intelligent simulator 9000 or Alfred Jarvis 9000.

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He has a quick message for our listeners, so let's hear it.

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Why hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of the dynamic dual community on Patreon where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic 2-0 tier lets you listen to this podcast without ads and gives you access to its Discord chat group where you can chat with Johnny DC and Marvelous Joe. The fantastic 4 tier gives you that and more with two bonus episodes each month including bloopers and top 10 shows where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel and DC subjects.

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The X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of Dynamic Duel, where every month you help the host choose what to review and who to fight against each other. And finally, the Dynamike Podcast Network tier allows aspiring podcasters to create their own battle-focused show using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results to announce on your show. Pitch the twins your show via email at dynamicduelpodcast.gmail.com

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them on social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic duel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ 9K and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast, including executive producer Ken Johnson, who has his own show within our Dynamike podcast network called Max Destruction, which you should go listen to right after this episode. He pits movie characters against each other in the same way that we do it on this show using a Monte Carlo simulator. His

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And the episode coming out tomorrow is Blade vs Riddick, the movie characters. It's gonna be a lot of fun. If you haven't listened to Max Destruction already, be sure to check it out. But also be sure to check out other friends of this podcast including the Blast from our Past podcast. I wanna give a huge shout out to Adam Spies, our good friend who was able to sub in my place as he and Johnny reviewed Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse last week. I still haven't seen the movie, so I still haven't listened to the review. I don't know if it's any good.

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It's a fantastic review. It's way better than you could have done. Trust me. Okay, okay. Good joke. I figure I'll probably have to wait to watch the movie until it comes out on streaming. I'm telling you man, the drive-in. If you have a local drive-in, it's the easiest way to see movies with babies. Yeah, but I like to really focus when I watch movies. And I just feel like with a newborn baby girl, if she starts crying or something like that, I'll miss something from the film.

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Not that I'm calling her a distraction. It's more like everything else is a distraction from her. But I can definitely wait considering that, you know, I don't have to review it right now. So. Well, that's interesting. I thought you were a fan. Hashtag fake fan. I am a fan. True colors revealed. Whatever, man, I have a newborn. I'm a fan of her first and foremost, but I do have to say it's killing me all the good things I've been hearing about the film. And I've been trying to avoid spoilers, but eventually I will see Across the Spider-Verse and I'm super psyched for it.

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But thanks again, Adam Spees. Guys, go listen to The Blast from our past podcast. It's a great show. Also go listen to the Mad Trivia podcast, which is run by one of our executive producers, John Storosky. I guested on an episode of his recently where we did trivia and mad libs about one of my favorite movies, Fight Club. It's a great show. It's really a lot of fun being passionate about your favorite films. And John's show is a great platform to do that on. Also this past week,

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an episode of the TV and movie trivia podcast came out that I guested on where I answered trivia questions about the movie Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse. I feel bad because all these episodes that I guested on just happened to come out on the week that I was taking a break from the show and so I couldn't talk about them. But yeah, listen to Max Destruction, Blast From Our Past podcast, The Mad Trivia podcast, and TV and movie trivia podcast. Apparently you're on every other podcast except your own.

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Yeah, kind of felt that way, huh? But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram and in our email newsletter for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week, we asked, what child or offspring of a Marvel or DC superhero or villain is your favorite and why?

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Yeah, there are a lot of great answers that people could have chosen from, but we got five distinct answers and we'll go ahead and go over the honorable mentions as well as the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Scott Camacho, who said, First off, congratulations to marvelous Joe. Father's Day is coming up. There's no better gift than daddy's little girl. My favorite DC offspring will be Damien Wayne. I fell in love with the character when I learned about him in the first injustice game and then watched his

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cinematic debut on the son of Batman and fell in love with character to the point where I even named my second born son Damien Wayne. So now I can say I'm the father of Damien Wayne. That's next level fandom right there. Hell yeah. Your kid after you know Batman's son. That's pretty impressive honestly. Damien Wayne is a great character. It took me a while to be okay with the fact that Batman had a son that had supplanted Tim Drake is Robin.

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But Damien Wayne is just such a fantastic character in his own right that yeah, I think he's kind of grown on everybody. Yeah, of course he's gonna be the Robin character in the upcoming Batman Brave and the Bold movie in the James Gunn DC cinematic universe. I first became a fan of Damien Wayne in the Battle for the Super Sons animated film, which was fantastic. Like I never really liked Jonathan Cantor Damien Wayne until I watched that movie. You know, being a Marvel fan and having never read the comics. But yeah, he's a great character.

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And thank you so much, Scotty, for the congrats on my newborn daughter. It's a lot of fun being a dad so far. I have to say, like, I never had any interest in babies, but they're just fascinating, especially when, you know, they're like yours and you just see all the nuances that take place as this little being starts becoming more and more human. Like, it's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome to fatherhood. Yeah. If I had any guts, I would have named her Carol Danvers or something. But I don't know if I could have gone away with that.

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Also shout out to Christopher Monotti who gave the same answer of Damien Wayne. Our next honorable mention goes to Bobby Kirby who said, Hey guys, it's Bobby Kirby and my favorite, uh, offspring or child is Bart Allen. So even though he's not technically a child, he's like a grandchild or great grandchild, I forget. But, um.

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I always loved the Flash, and so that's why I pick Bart Allen. Comes from Barry Allen. All right, bye. Yeah, Bart Allen is the grandson of Barry Allen, the Flash. And of course, Bart Allen came on the scene as Impulse, but eventually he kind of graduated to Kid Flash and later even The Flash. Yeah, I learned all about him in our dual episode where we pit Impulse against Speed from the New Avengers. He's a pretty fun character, kind of has ADHD. So he's like all over the place. But that's.

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That's what makes him fun. Great answer Bobby Kirby, our next honorable mention goes to, Miggy Mathengian, who said, Hey what's up guys, this is Miggy. Congrats Ariane and Joe, so happy for you guys. To answer the question of the week, my answer is obviously Nightwing, one of the best heroes in all of comics. He overcame great tragedy to make the world a better place inside and outside of the mask by leading DC's premier team, the Titans, and through his philanthropy.

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helping those in need in Bloothaven through his Pennyworth Foundation. Now Dick Grayson is not technically the offspring of a superhero, but he is the adopted son of Batman. Right, he was the original Robin, the original kid superhero. He goes way back and he's grown so much as a character into Nightwing. He has one of the best arcs in all of comic book history. It's weird that in the comic books he's old enough to be a father himself, and that would make Batman a grandpa. How would you feel about that?

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I mean, as long as the mother is Barbara Gordon, I'm fine with it. Or Starfire, I will also accept Starfire as the mother. Maybe the baby comes out like redhead and spunky and they can't figure out who the mother is. Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Oh shit. But. I was gonna say they could turn it into a Mori show, but that's not how pregnancy works. You would think that I would know better. But a great answer, Miggy. Thanks so much for the congrats as well. But the winner of this week's No Prize is Travis Herndon.

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I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Who said? Hey guys, this is Travis, long time listener, first time answering one of your questions. My favorite child in Marvel DC is Hulk's son, Scar. Love his design. I love his story with him and Hulk going from hating each other to growing as a father and son. I can't wait to see what they're going to do with him in EMCU now that he's been introduced. But yeah, definitely Scar is my favorite Marvel child.

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Catch you guys later. Our first and only Marvel answer this week. Yeah, that's why he gets the win. Also because it's kind of thematic. It ties into the duel of this episode, which deals with the Hulk. Scar is the son of the Hulk and Kyera during Hulk's time as a gladiator in the Planet Hulk storyline. And Scar was also recently introduced in the Marvel Cinematic Universe at the end of the She-Hulk television series.

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Maybe one day we'll get him in a duel episode. But as far as superhero offspring goes, Scar's a badass. He's like a Conan the Barbarian version of the Incredible Hulk. Yeah, I know literally nothing about him. You obviously chose this week's No Prize winner. I would have chose Nightwing, personally. Well, it looks like you would have chosen correctly, and I wouldn't you have. No? There we go. Well, congrats, I guess, to Travis. You win this week's No Prize. If you're the listener and want a shot at winning your own No Prize.

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Stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. And now that that's done, on to the news!

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Okay, Justice League Warworld is an animated film coming out next month. It is the latest entry in the Tomorrowverse universe of DC animated films that began with Superman Man of Tomorrow. This is the very first Justice League film that we're getting in this universe. You know, prior to this we got a Justice Society film and that's the closest that we've actually gotten. This one of course focuses on the Trinity Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. From the looks of it, these three characters...

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get stranded on Warworld, which is a giant weapon machine planet run by Mongol, who makes a shadowy appearance at the end of this trailer. But it looks like the three of them go into like simulations of other worlds. Yeah, and it looks like they get brainwashed into believing that they're different people. Like Batman is like a swords and sorcerers type barbarian. Yeah, he goes to the world of Sakaaris because we get to see Warlord in this trailer.

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Superman goes to like a 1920s North sci-fi world with aliens that he's battling. Yeah, kind of like in the vein of The Day the Earth Stood Still or something. Exactly, or like War of the Worlds or something like that, right? Yeah. And then Wonder Woman is going to the Old West where she gets to meet Jonah Hex. It's pretty interesting and something I totally was not expecting from this movie. It's like a mashup of three different unique but fascinating genres in a superhero movie, which rarely explores other genres.

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Really looking forward to this. The last Tomorrowverse animated film, Legion of Superheroes, was not great. So hopefully this makes up for it. The cast is returning. Jensen Echols, of course, voiced Batman in the long Halloween movies. Stan Akadik voiced Wonder Woman in the Justice Society movie. And Darren Criss is coming back as Superman from Man of Tomorrow. Also making an appearance is Martian Manhunter, I'm assuming in the Superman storyline. Troy Baker as Jonah Hex.

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and Robin Atkin Downs as Mongol. I would like to get a Mongol duel in there, probably against like Annihilus or something like that. Just these like extraterrestrial alien warlords. Oh, that'd be cool. The trailer is a little vague story wise. We just get a lot of different shots of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in their various worlds. I think the thing that surprised me the most was the R rating that came before the trailer by the MPA. It's rated R for some bloody violence.

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I don't think we've seen an R rated DC animated film since Justice League Dark Apocalypse War. I could be wrong in that, but that's the last one I remember. And that alone gets me pretty excited for this movie as well because Justice League Dark Apocalypse War was amazing. I'm surprised it's not R rated for nudity. Doesn't DC like to include nudity in their animated films? Absolutely. Though it looks like it's not in this movie, unfortunately. What do you mean unfortunately? I meant fortunately.

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The movie is slated to be released on July 25th, the end of next month, so we'll review it then and hopefully get a few related duels to go with it. Well actually the last episode of Secret Invasion comes out around then, so we'll be prioritizing the Secret Invasion review before getting to Justice League Warworld. Okay, why? Because it's Marvel, live action, Disney+, way more important than this DC animated crap, but-

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But it'll be cool to tie an Annihilus-Mongol-Alien duel episode into both of those reviews. Okay, yeah, we'll see if that happens. But since Batman and Wonder Woman and Superman appear to be in alternate universes of a sort within this trailer, that brings us to our question of the week.

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Who is your favorite alternate universe Marvel or DC character and why? Yeah, and this can apply to the main comic book universes or the main film universes, alternate versions of those within their respective media. Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast.

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We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic duel note prize that we'll post to Instagram and our email newsletter. Be sure to answer before June 17th. In other news, the Captain America New World Order movie has had its title changed to Captain America Brave New World. That happened this past Tuesday in a social media post by Anthony Mackie. I actually saw that post like seconds after it was published and I didn't think anything of it.

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It was just a behind the scenes shot during the filming process with Anthony Mackey and Harrison Ford. But yeah, on the back of their chairs it says Captain America Brave New World. And I got to say I like the new title more than New World Order. I think it's a lot more optimistic Brave New World, even though it's based off of this dystopian novel by Aldous Huxley. It sounds a little bit more adventurous than the more ominous New World Order title that the film had previously.

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But I would agree that Brave New World sounds more positive, more Captain America-esque. Yeah, especially as, you know, we launch into this new era with a new Captain America, with Sam Wilson taking up the shield. To my knowledge, there's been no major Sam Wilson arc called Brave New World, although I'm sure it's been used a few times in the comics. Do you like subtitles, or do you just like numbers, like Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3? I prefer subtitles, actually, more than numbers. It just seems like Marvel is really

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botching these subtitles in that the story of the movie has nothing to do with like the storyline that the movie is named after from the comics. It's not botching. It's just an adaptation. I mean, I guess like, for example, Thor Ragnarok had nothing to do with the Ragnarok storyline from the Thor comic books, but it was still a fun film. Same thing with Civil War. Thematically, there were some similarities there, but storywise, very different.

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I wonder if this Captain America Brave New World movie will deal with any themes of a dystopian society or anything like that, but in the end it might just turn out to be like Wonder Woman 1984, which we thought was going to be dystopian or something and then just ended up being a title that they gave it because I guess it took place in the 1980s. Yeah, or literally no reason whatsoever. That's what it felt like. But Brave New World has often been compared to George Orwell's 1984.

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where 1984 is more like a autocratic dystopia, whereas Brave New World is more like a hedonistic dystopia. Can't wait for Fantastic Fahrenheit 451. But the release date for Captain America Brave New World is May 3rd, 2024. Comes out next year and we'll see what it's like then.

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But I think that does it for all the news for this episode, so let's go ahead and get into our main event, where we find out who'd win in a fight between the multiversal characters of Superman, from the Kingdom Come universe, and the futuristic evil version of the Hulk, Maestro.

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Alright, Kingdom Come, Superman vs Maestro. We figured we should do these characters once we determined that we were going to do a multiversal duel in the same vein as our previous multiversal episodes like Batman Beyond vs Spider-Man 2099 and the Batman Who Laughs vs Cosmic Ghost Rider. Those two episodes tied into the Multiverse of Madness review that we did for the Doctor Strange sequel.

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This duel is tying into the Across the Spider-Verse movie and the Flash movie, both of which deal with the concept of the multiverse. Yeah, and I'm super excited to do Kingdom Come Superman. Kingdom Come is my favorite DC storyline of all time. So I was hoping that we would get to do this version of Superman in a duel, and I can't think of a better opponent for him than Maestro, considering both of these characters are like older versions of themselves that are in peak condition.

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Yeah, Maestro is a future evil version of the Hulk. He comes from a Hulk storyline in the early 90s called Future Imperfect, which is widely regarded as not only one of the Hulk's best stories, but one of Marvel's best stories in general. It's only two issues. If you haven't checked it out, definitely read it. It's worth a read. Really well written by Peter David. And of course, Kingdom Come was written by Mark Waid. Yeah, Mark Waid and Alex Ross, who also did beautiful artwork for it.

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I guess I was the one that was really pushing for a duel with Maestro considering that he's probably next to Spider-Man 2099, one of the more popular alternate universe Marvel characters. And then after discussing it with the executive producers, we kind of put it to a vote between the injustice version of Superman, who's an evil version of Superman, or again, King Don't Come, who's an older version of Superman. But I like this result. First, let's have our sentient dual simulator Alfred Jarvis 9000 break down the methodology behind our dual simulations.

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Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the contestants is by running 1,000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters statistics are extrapolated.

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Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character should win 100% of the matches.

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The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. Thanks AJ9K! Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down each character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario.

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and how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to go first with the DC characters' backstory, so let me tell you all about Kingdom Come Superman. Now, the story of Kingdom Come takes place in an alternate universe known as Earth 22, which exists in the not-too-distant future of a timeline very similar to DC's prime universe, known as Earth Zero. And much like on Earth Zero,

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Earth-22's Superman was rocketed to Earth from the dying planet Krypton and raised in Smallville, Kansas, before becoming a journalist for the Daily Planet newspaper in the city of Metropolis. It was at the Daily Planet that Superman, under the alias of Clark Kent, met and fell in love with fellow journalist Lois Lane, whom Clark eventually married. You can learn more about Superman in our Superman vs. Dr. Doom episode.

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An event took place in the Earth-22 universe, however, that would forever change the Man of Steel. While Superman was away, the Joker unleashed a gas attack on the staff of the Daily Planet, killing all of them except for Lois Lane, who survived the gas attack thanks to a gas mask, but also suffered a fatal head injury during the ordeal. Superman arrived in time to hold his dying wife in his arms, powerless to save her,

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and she made him promise not to kill the Joker in revenge for what happened. He promised he wouldn't as she passed, and not long after, Superman captured the Joker. As police were taking Joker into custody, Metropolis's new, extreme superhero, Magog, killed the Joker on the spot. Devastated by the perversion of justice, Superman had Magog arrested and put on trial, though Magog was acquitted of all charges.

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thanks largely to the public's favorable opinion of what he had done. Superman, with his faith now lost in humanity, retreated to the Arctic fortress of Solitude, where he spent decades living in isolation as a simple farmer. With Superman's absence, the world lost its most inspirational figure and symbol of hope. Many of the existing superheroes also became disillusioned by the public's moral degradation and acceptance of Magog's violent brand of heroism.

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causing those heroes to retire. In their stead, emerged a new breed of superhero, many of whom were the children of the prior generation of superheroes gifted with powers, but not the essential lessons learned during their parents' tragic origins. Inspired by Magog and encouraged by society, these new heroes, quote-unquote, employed brutal tactics, either killing Earth's villains or driving them into hiding.

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and no outlet, many of these new heroes also began forming teams or gangs and fighting each other, often destroying public property and having little to no regard for human life. Magog's team, the Justice Battalion, found the villain Parasite and attacked him with excessive force, inadvertently causing a thermonuclear explosion in Kansas that irradiated the entire state and region, killing millions.

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and destroying most of the nation's food production. Upon learning what happened to Kansas from Wonder Woman, Superman decided to return to his superhero career, forming a new Justice League that enforced the morals and virtues of the heroes of yesteryear, recruiting or imprisoning other metahumans that they encountered. Superman's crusade to impose morality was met with opposition by Batman, who formed his own team of mostly non-powered superheroes.

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formed his own team as well of former supervillains with the goal of ridding Earth of its superpowered oppressors entirely. Having brainwashed the hero Shazam, Lex Luthor unleashed him on Superman and the Justice League when a prison riot broke open Superman's gulag of superpowered dissenters. In response to the warring superhumans, the United Nations dropped a nuclear bomb in the middle of the battle out of fear that their war could destroy the planet.

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Though Shazam was able to break free of his brainwashing in time to sacrifice his life, detonating the bomb before it hit the battlefield, a majority of the superhumans were killed in the blast. At the moment of the explosion, Superman was torn from his universe and emerged in DC's Prime Universe thanks to a dimensional rift accidentally caused by the Justice Society of America, which you can learn more about in our Justice Society vs. Fantastic Four Team Duel episode.

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After aiding the Justice Society and the primary Superman defeat the old god known as Gog, who had recently created Magog, Superman of Earth-22 took Gog's head to the edge of the universe to merge with the Source Wall, where Gog mocked Superman for abandoning his own reality out of fear of what the bomb had done when it detonated. With the help of Starman, Superman returned to Earth-22 at the exact moment of his departure,

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only to witness the horror and death that the bomb had caused. Enraged, Superman attempted to destroy the United Nations and the dignitaries within, before being persuaded not to by a pastor named Norman McKay, who had been observing Superman's activities with the aid of the Spectre, who you can learn more about in his duel against Galactus. Realizing he needed to lead by example rather than force, Superman helped usher in a new age of superheroes.

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later marrying Wonder Woman, who became pregnant with his child. Their son, Jonathan Kent, was partly raised by Batman, who also served as the godfather to Superman and Wonder Woman's three other children before he died. Superman himself lived hundreds of years into the future, the course of which time he witnessed most humans leave Earth for space and helped re-cultivate the Earth as a farmer before he was able to see his ultimate legacy and impact on the universe.

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with the formation of the Legion of Superheroes. Powers-wise, Superman of Earth-22 has spent decades longer than the Superman of the main timeline absorbing sunlight, putting him at the peak of his invulnerability to the point where he's no longer affected by kryptonite. Superman also possesses vast strength and speed, as well as the ability to fly. His senses are also considerably much more heightened than a standard counterpart.

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possessing greatly improved hearing as well as telescopic and microscopic vision. Superman can also see into the X-ray spectrum of light and project infrared radiation as intense beams from his eyes, known as heat vision. He could also generate hurricane-force winds with his breath, which he could also chill in order to freeze objects or an environment. This version of Superman also possesses near-immortality.

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having shown to age at a considerably slower rate than humans, allowing him to survive at least into the 31st century. And that's Kingdom Come Superman. What a goody two shoes, man. Pfft. Fuck yeah! Like a badass. I don't like the way you kids are acting. Get off my lawn or go to jail. Pretty much. That's basically Batman's point of view, I guess. That was like everyone but Superman's point of view.

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Well, I guess I shouldn't say too much because Maestro definitely has a more warped point of view than Kingdom Come Superman. And at least Kingdom Come Superman, you know, like learned the error of his ways. Maestro's story is vastly different, but let me go ahead and tell you all about him. In the not too distant future, in an alternate timeline, a group of terrorists set off a pair of simultaneous atomic bomb explosions in the United States and Russia, triggering a nuclear war between the nations.

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that destroyed a vast majority of the human race. Despite all the work Earth's heroes did to stop the evil plots of criminals and supervillains, in the end, they could not save mankind from itself. Of the few million humans that remained, a few dozen of them formed a death cult called Black Scythe, who, with no heroes left to stop them, developed a chemical weapon that extinguished all but a thousand lives or so. Mankind was on the brink of extinction.

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Those that remained lived sheltered from the radioactive fallout in a post-apocalyptic city called Dystopia. When the initial nuclear bombs hit, the evil scientific organization AIM, led by the villain Modok, rounded up as many radiation-resistant beings as they could in the time that they had before the planet became a radioactive wasteland. This included the hero Bruce Banner, who could turn into the raging monster known as the Hulk,

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due to an accident involving a gamma radiation bomb. You can learn all about the Hulk in our duel episode where we pit him against Doomsday. This version of the Hulk was put into heavy sedation deep underground by AIM and studied in order to recreate his power of radiation absorption. Nearly 100 years of testing proved unsuccessful, however, and eventually the Hulk's mind rejected the sedation and he woke up. The Hulk…

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who aged at a decelerated rate and possessed the intelligence of Bruce Banner, was shocked to learn from MODOK that pretty much everyone he knew had died. Enraged, Hulk escaped the AIM underground facility and explored the vast wasteland that Earth had become. Contemplating humanity's destructive tendencies, he developed deep-seated resentment toward them, as well as a cruel and bitter attitude toward life in general. During the Hulk's wanderings, he absorbed the ambient radiation around him.

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increasing his strength to untold levels. Eventually, he stumbled upon the city of Dystopia, the last remaining stronghold of mankind, and learned that it was ruled by a despot known only as the Maestro, which is how you say master in Italian. Curious, Hulk visited the castle built at the top of Dystopia and was surprised to discover that the Maestro was none other than his fellow Avenger and Olympian demigod, Hercules.

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who had also developed a cynical attitude toward humanity and lorded over dystopia as a means to serve his hedonistic lifestyle. Gracious to see that the Hulk had survived, Hercules surprise attacked him to test his strength in a sparring match and then invited him to a decadent feast. Impressed by the civilization that Hercules was in charge of, Hulk decided he wanted it for himself. He used the ruins of the Alchemax Laboratories to construct an army of giant robotic creatures called War Dogs.

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and launched an assault on Dystopia. Though his first attempt to overtake the city was unsuccessful, Hulk returned to AIM's underground labs and broke out the supervillain named Vapor, whom he manipulated into seducing and poisoning Hercules to death. Hulk then killed Vapor by using an ice ray gun to freeze her gaseous form and then shattered her into pieces. With Hercules now dead, the Hulk took the throne and became the new Maestro.

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living lavishly above his post-apocalyptic city. There were still some pockets of resistance outside of Dystopia, however, and Maestro decided that in order to solidify his rule, he had to smash them. He discovered that his former teammates, a group of Asgardian demigods called the Pantheon, had survived the apocalypse, and he recruited their help to destroy AIM and its underground base that had once held them prisoner. The Pantheon turned on Maestro afterward, however.

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as they had a secret alliance with Doctor Doom, who had time traveled to this dimension with aims to take over Dystopia. The Pantheon deceived Maestro and encased him in Duranium Metal, though Maestro was able to smash his way out before murdering his former teammates. As it turned out, that was the plan all along as Maestro and Doctor Doom conspired together to eliminate any opposition to their combined rule. With their enemies defeated, however, the two despots turned on each other and attacked.

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Maestro won their initial fight using electromagnets to strip Dr. Doom of his armor, though Doom teleported away before being killed. Dr. Doom then recruited a team to get revenge, including the Hulk's old foe the Abomination, who had also been captured and survived the destruction of AIM, Namor the Submariner, the ruler of the undersea kingdom of Atlantis, which had survived the nuclear Armageddon, and the original android human Torch. Doom's alliance was volatile, however.

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and Maestro managed to manipulate Abomination into joining his side against Dr. Doom, the Submariner, and the Human Torch. Maestro and Abomination halted the Submariner's attack on Dystopia by defeating his gargantuan sea monster Giganto, though the pair were then teleported to an adamantium prison in Castle Doom. Maestro escaped by transforming into Bruce Banner and slipping through the bars. He freed the Abomination who hacked into the Human Torch's android body.

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causing him to self-destruct in a supernova blast that killed not only Doom, but the Submariner and himself in the process. Maestro emerged the only survivor, and with all of his enemies gone, he resumed his tyrannical rule over Dystopia. There was still a modest pocket of resistance remaining, however, led by the Hulk's former ally, Rick Jones, who had acquired Dr. Doom's time machine.

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He and his ragtag rebellion used it to bring the Hulk from the late 20th century into this post-apocalyptic timeline, believing the only one who could defeat Maestro would be his past self. When the past Hulk confronted Maestro, Maestro wiped the floor with him and broke his neck, temporarily paralyzing past Hulk. Maestro tried to convince his past self to rule alongside him.

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telling him that dominating humans was better than being feared and persecuted by them in the past. Feigning that he would consider it, the past Hulk instead sneaked Rick Jones' rebellion into Maestro's palace in an attempted coup. However, Maestro was onto them and quickly defeated the rebellion, forcing past Hulk to flee to the rebel base where Rick Jones had a shrine to the hollowed heroes of the past. Maestro pursued the past Hulk.

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and was nearly killed when Past Hulk lodged Captain America's old shield into his chest. Maestro proved to be too strong however, and he thrashed the Past Hulk, savagely pursuing and beating him to within an inch of his life, stopping only when he saw Past Hulk reach for the activation button on Doom's time machine. As it turned out, Past Hulk led Maestro to stand over the machine in a last ditch effort, and Maestro was sent back in time, away from Dystopia.

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to a desert in New Mexico, at ground zero of a gamma bomb test. The last thing Maestro saw was his past self, off in the distance. Bruce Banner, about to be bombarded by gamma radiation. Less than a second later, the bomb went off, Maestro was atomized, and finally defeated. Past Hulk returned to his native timeline, uncertain if his future contained the same fate.

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Due to absorption of the ambient radiation left on Earth after its nuclear destruction, Maestro is stronger than his past self, the Hulk, who is able to lift well in excess of 100 tons. Maestro has greater durability, stamina, speed, and healing ability, and the madder he gets, the more those attributes increase. If the Hulk could go toe to toe with Superman as he has a few times in comics continuity, then Maestro will definitely have no problem whatsoever.

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He can leap vast distances with his powerful legs, almost to the point of flying. He can emanate massive concussive blasts when he claps his hands together, and generate enormous seismic earthquakes when stomping on the ground. He can withstand the full heat of a nova blast as hot as the sun, though he does have a vulnerability to gamma radiation weapons. If he is physically hurt, he can heal most wounds, even the loss of a limb, in a matter of seconds. Maestro is a more formidable fighter than his past self.

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having spent an era battling and quelling revolts against his rule. And that's Maestro. OK, so the Prime Superman is on Earth zero. Kingdom Come Superman is Earth 22. Main continuity Marvel is Earth 616. Do you know what Maestro's Earth is? Yeah, Earth 9200. Oh, interesting. OK. Part of me just likes to consider Marvel as like an alternate Earth of DC.

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just the, you know, 616th Earth. That's stupid, I don't like that. I think it's unavoidable, because Marvel randomly chose 616 to be their main one instead of zero or one, like a normal universe would. Eh, I think that was Alan Moore's doing, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's correct.

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So now that we've got their histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not this speculation, but it's fun to imagine how this fight could play out. Alfred Jarvis 9000, what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out...

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is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For the speculation, the contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself, as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright then let's get into it. Kingdom Come Superman and Maestro meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I don't want to say that Maestro would go first, because I think he's too like...

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cunning and smart to just lash out. But like Kingdom Come Superman is just so boring. That I think Maestro would have to go first just so that someone would. So Maestro, you know, he's gonna crack his knuckles and he's just gonna walk over to Superman with a big grin on his face to lay a smack down. Okay, first of all, how dare you say that Kingdom Come Superman is boring? He probably watches Little House on the Prairie while eating soup, you know? You know how Maestro passes at the time?

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smiting his foes and having beautiful women beat him grapes. Okay, second of all, no way Superman is going to let Maestro just walk up to him with an attack. As Maestro starts walking toward him, it's like Superman is just going to blast him with his heat vision, just charring his flesh and definitely burning off that stupid old man beard. No way. Dude, you can't do that. The beard is Maestro's signature look, you know?

42:15
Maestro, you know, he's gonna take a second to regrow his skin and then noticing that his beard's gone. He's just gonna lash out and just launch himself at Superman like a bomb and just explode into him fist first, punching Superman with a force so strong that it's gonna send Superman flying back fast enough to produce a sonic boom. Maestro's probably strong enough to do that, but that sonic boom is gonna be followed up immediately.

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by a second one because Superman is going to rocket back toward Maestro and just punch him repeatedly up into the air to like the upper atmosphere where the air is so thin that it's going to make Maestro lose consciousness. I figured he'd do that, but actually Maestro doesn't need that much oxygen due to his stronger nature. Like he went full out against Submariner and Atlantis and he never came up for air, almost like he could breathe underwater. So

43:13
Like Superman's tactic is just frankly stupid. Maestro is gonna laugh and punish this dunce by grabbing Superman by his red underwear and just giving him the biggest wedgie in a multiversal history. It's not just like an atomic wedgie. This is like an atomic Holocaust wedgie. Damn! And like with this grasp, he's gonna hurl Superman back down toward the earth, sending him like a mile deep into the ground.

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And then Maestro is just going to fall back to the earth with a large stomp, making this large crater. OK, clearly, you don't know Superman's got buns of steel, so there's no way like any underwear can strain his super crack. But let's say Superman does get slammed into the ground. Like Maestro can only fall so fast. Like by the time he even gets halfway back to the ground, Superman's already rocketed back to the surface.

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launching huge boulders with him into the sky. So using his super speed, he's going to grab these boulders and just hurl them at Maestro rapid fire from all different angles. That doesn't mean anything to Maestro. He'll just kick through these boulders as they crash into him. They don't even slow him down as he falls back to Earth. OK, but as Maestro is about to crash into the ground, Superman is going to use his freeze breath to freeze him in this like massive iceberg.

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just causing him to shatter into a million pieces once he lands. No, Maestro is too durable for that. His skin withstood the temperature of Human Torch's Nova Flame. So Maestro can withstand being frozen. And plus, I feel like his internal body temperature would be too high from radio activity, so I don't think his body would be frozen through. So he wouldn't shatter. The ice would just shatter off his body as he crashed to the ground.

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and he would be unharmed. So Maestro is just going to get up to his feet and he's going to do this giant hand clap, which sends out a thunderous shockwave, like a hundred tons of dynamite towards Superman that just knocks him out of the air and onto his ass. Okay, except that as the shockwave is coming at him, Superman's going to use his super breath to disrupt the air between them, canceling the shockwave and instead blasting Maestro with the force of a hundred hurricanes, sending him flying backwards.

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You can't, that's not how shockwaves work. You can't like blow them away with wind. Shockwaves travel through the air. It's air molecules pushing against each other. Without air, there would be no shockwave. So disrupting the air disrupts the shockwave. But it wouldn't like cancel the force produced by the clap though, right? Absolutely would. So you can protect, so are you saying that you can protect yourself from a, like a concussive grenade with like a strong

46:04
Turbine fan? I don't know about the science there. I don't know about the like the shrapnel, but like with a strong enough, fast enough gust, I think you could stop the shockwave. Yeah, I don't believe you. But either way, Maestro, he's gonna do like this earthquake stomp, and it's gonna be so strong that it like sends ripples through the ground and erects this wall of earth between him and Superman that deflects his hurricane force winds.

46:33
Oh, so like an earthquake versus a hurricane. Exactly. OK, well, I mean, that wall of Earth is going to come crashing down as Superman just explodes through it, catching Maestro by surprise. And before Maestro even has time to react, Superman, you know, realizing he has no other choice, he's going to maneuver behind Maestro and just twist his neck, snapping it Zod style like in Man of Steel.

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As Superman learned his lesson, I thought he was like Mr. Morality. Why is he snapping necks all over the place all of a sudden? It needs to be done. And I don't know what to say. So Superman's going to be like, what have I done? And he's going to start crying. Sure. And Maestro, you know, like a badass, he's going to heal his neck with his healing factor, and he's going to be like, stop crying, you blue bitch. This is how you do it. And then he's going to grab him by the head and then like swing Superman's neck around like a lasso until.

47:27
His head just pops off. Maestro wins. Dude, that's how you snap a neck. It's fucking Superman. That would not happen. Then why did it just happen? What? We'll go ahead and leave the match there. Either Superman snaps Maestro's neck and cries about it, or Maestro rings Superman's neck and doesn't give him a second thought. We'll go ahead and input the stats into our simulator, run a thousand simulations, and come back to you guys with a winner.

47:57
AJ 9K, run the stats. Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. All right, that was pretty much how I imagine a regular Superman versus Hulk fight would go. Of course, both Kingdom Come Superman and Maestro are their more powerful counterparts, but I think overall it played out pretty similarly. Yeah, both of these characters are insanely difficult to damage, let alone kill.

48:26
So I'm still not sold about the whole finishing movie did there, but whatevs. Stat-wise, these characters matched up in quite a few categories, including durability, obviously strength, damage level, obviously, but also evasiveness. Yeah, we said that Superman was a little bit faster, but Maestro was smarter, considering he's like a tech and tactics genius. Of course, Superman had the greater range, but also the greater perception thanks to his enhanced senses.

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obviously versatility. But Maestro is a better fighter, considering his years of hand-to-hand combat has left him with a better, smarter fighting style. So taking all of these stats into consideration, Joseph, who do you think is the winner? Well, there's who I think will win in my brain and who I think will win in my heart. And I'm gonna go with my heart in this instance and say that it's gonna be Maestro because he's just so much more ruthless and cruel and essentially unstoppable.

49:23
I just think he would take the fight to more extreme places than Superman would. Even though our Instagram followers disagree with me, not by much, only 58% of them thought that Kingdom Come Superman would win. And I gotta say, it's about time a DC guy comes ahead on that. It's been a while. Come on, people are biased towards Superman. They don't really know. Over Hulk? Yeah. Although, I wonder how many people realize that Maestro is Hulk. That's a good question. Comic fans certainly know.

49:52
Well, let's find out who won. AJ, the results, please. Hey, you also. The winner of the matchup between Kingdom Come Superman and Maestro is Kingdom Come Superman. What's up with these simulations being biased towards Superman? What? Everybody's biased towards Superman. I don't know what it is. Superman won 66.4 percent of the 1000 matches or 664 wins.

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Maestro only won 336 or 33.6% of the time. Well, that's not that close, but I like to think that the one third of matches that Maestro manages to win are done by Atomic Holocaust Wedgie. Do you not remember what I said about the buns of steel? Would it happen? Well, this is not a great way for me to return from a hiatus with a loss. So I think it's time for me to go on hiatus again.

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until we pick a match where Marvel wins. Which is gonna be our next match. Rage quitting, Joseph's rage quitting. Whenever we get to our next duel, because I know we have quite a few reviews coming up, including The Flash and Batman 89. But that doesn't for this episode. Let us know what you thought about the duel results by writing to us at dynamicduelpodcast.gmail.com or by visiting us on Instagram or Twitter. You can find links to all of our accounts by checking out our show notes or visiting our website, dynamicduel.com.

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And on our site, you could also find a link to our Patreon page, where you could join our Dynamic Duo tier and chat with us and fellow listeners, our Fantastic Four tier, which gets you bonus content each month, our X-Force tier that makes you an executive producer of this podcast, or our newest tier that lets you join our Dynamike Podcast Network. If you can't join Patreon, you can still support the show by signing up for our e-newsletter

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also at dynamicjewel.com. If you're not signed up, sign up for that newsletter. As I just mentioned, our next episode, we will be doing a review of the Flash movie, which comes out this week. So hopefully you have your tickets, hopefully you see it, and hopefully you join us to hear our thoughts. I will be reviewing that film. I did see it about a month ago. Yeah, just in time, thank goodness. But that does it. We wanna give a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken Johnson, John Strausky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Belcombe, Mickey Mathengian, Brendan Estergard.

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Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Nick Abonto, Austin Wazolowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, and Adam Spees for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers.