Martian Manhunter vs Vision

 [Music] hi welcome to the dynamic duel podcast where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stack based battle simulations I’m marvelous Joe and I’m his twin brother Johnny DC and this is a big episode because it is Martian Manhunter vs. vision to be plus Lister’s if I may say myself E + a - Lister’s in their respective universes yeah and some of the most powerful and their respective universes oh yeah definitely yeah they both have similar power sets and it’ll be a lot of fun to talk about who would win in a fight between them yeah I’ve been looking forward to this one for a long time I’ve always wanted to know who would win in a fight I’m pretty sure it’s gonna be Martian Manhunter the guy could basically do anything it’s gonna be a really hard fight for you he is a cheater character I will say that and I’ll just leave it at that so yeah I’ve been looking forward to this fight for a long time look forward to that later on this episode but before we get into the duel we’re going to get into the comic book movie news from the past week which is super light this is probably the lightest news week we’ve ever had since we started this podcast and that includes like those weeks leading up to Comic Con win like the studio’s don’t release anything right no DC news no no DC news we really only have one item to talk about and that’s the first official trailer for iron fist season 2 which drops in a few weeks yeah they released quite a few teasers like two or three but this is the first official trailer right and just a heads up the this Thursday we will be releasing a bonus episode on our patreon account which you can visit at patreon.com slash dynamic duel where we’ll drop a quick animatic revealing who would win in a fight between Robocop and terminator now we use the same Monte Carlo system for those quick-draw bonus episodes that we use for our regular duel episodes where we take the character stats and run a thousand battle simulations to determine who the real victor would be so yeah look forward to that this Thursday the 23rd you know if you visit our patreon you’ll notice that we have a goal going right now to reach 25 patrons at which point we will start mailing out printed versions of our no prize illustrations that we award weekly to those who gave our favorite answers to our question of the week right and speaking of no prizes it’s no prize time so for those who don’t know what a no prize is a no prize is an award that Marvel used to give out to fans up until about the 90s who would point out hypo hypo issues with their comics our version that dynamic duel no prize it’s a digital award that we post to social media that we personally draw for those we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week and hopefully soon to be printed version last week’s question of the week was what Marvel content do you hope to see on Disney’s upcoming streaming app and this is probably a question that many of you didn’t think about or maybe that it was just a bad question because we only actually got one response this time right yeah usually we would give you guys crap for that but I think it was just a poor question on our part so there are no honorable mentions but we do have a winner and that winner is Dan Baker who most wants to see a series that focuses on the histories and backstories of characters who may not get their own film within the MCU yeah and I thought that was a great answer characters like say war machine they may not ever get their own solo film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe you’re leaving like oh yeah or some or Hawkeye or somebody like that yeah so like what Marvel used to do back in the 70s I think through the 90s they used to have series like Marvel spotlight or Marvel Comics presents and basically those would just be like anthology series where there’s no overarching narrative but every couple of issues would be dedicated to a specific character that didn’t necessarily have their own title at the time so see it’s something like that as well oh yeah so you would have books like Marvel presents Colossus and you know you would have a couple of issues about the character of classes or Hawkeye or somebody like that so I think that would be really cool I mean I don’t know if the actors would actually be up for it but you know if we’re wishing then we may as well wish bake right yeah and it could be like the histories of the character so you would see them as like children it would be almost like a young Indiana Jones kind of thing I think right yeah I think that would be fantastic content for the fans for Disney to put up on their streaming service and as a Marvel fan that is something that I would definitely purchase that shimming service for that type of content yeah we still don’t know if they’re gonna do original content but if they did that would definitely be pretty cool yeah personally my answer for this would be comics like I would love it if they were to somehow merge my marble and limited account with the Disney streaming app kind of like what DC universe is doing yeah where they have comics and in video content on their app but I don’t think that’ll happen so damn sucks to be a Marvel fan hey buddy so congratulations again to Dan Baker for winning this week’s no prize if you want to win the no prize go ahead and listen later on this episode we will be giving another question of the week onto the news so iron fist season 2 had their first full-length trailer finally released we’ve gotten quite a few teasers that have each been like under a minute long yeah but you know this is that first substantial preview that we’ve gotten of the series which actually it goes to Netflix in just a few weeks on September 7th so it’s kind of late in the game he seems to be getting the first full-length trailer three weeks out but for the most part I thought it was a pretty good trailer it’s definitely the best bit of marketing that the show has had so far despite a few lines that make me face yeah they made me facepalm a little bit but it’s cool that it starts out with Danny wearing some kind of costume me he’s wearing a mask basically over his face it’s it’s his typical green hoodie but it has a yellow sash that he’s wearing over the bottom half of his face which is is fine it’s more of a ninja look than his iron fist look when I first saw I was like oh that’s that’s not the wrong half of your face dude anyway you want to flip that around right but it doesn’t look bad do you think that this is going to be the version of the Iron Fist costume that we get in this Netflix world no I’m still hoping we get like some kind of Bruce Lee style track suit personally yeah well that’s what he was wearing at the end of the defenders show and later on in this trailer we see him wearing the traditional Iron Fist outfit with the mask oh yes a bandanna on the top half of his face yeah and I’m wondering if we’re ever gonna get a version of that honestly it looks kind of silly it’s cheap material in those flashbacks and everything like that it looks kind of dopey on the face cuz there’s no way in hell they would be able to see anything but I would have to imagine that the costume designers for these shows will be able to afford something that looked a little bit better on the face yeah typically cowls these live-action costume superhero Kells aren’t just cloth they’re sculpted you know right exactly and if we do get it like a final version of the Iron Fist costume for Danny Rand you know near the end of this series or whatever hopefully that’s what it’s like yeah I mean like daredevil sort of had it in daredevil season one right something like that for Iron Fist where it was just kind of like this almost like a helmet type thing that they know I’m talking about I’m talking about Daredevils just black mask before he got his coleus a cloth kind of thing with ties in the back right yeah you know that didn’t look too bad right on him at all yeah all I’m saying is that if this mask that Danny’s wearing on the bottom half of his face at the beginning of this trailer is the version of the final costume I’d only be 60% pissed it’s better than nothing it’s better than what you know he’s been wearing thus far yeah but eventually hopefully we get something accurate to the comics and something cool looking and not dorky looking one of the things that really impressed me with this trailer is the action yes yeah I noticed that as well one of the biggest detriments to season one was the lack of choreography I guess there was choreography but it just wasn’t well executed this one looks like there’s gonna be a lot of action a lot of actually really quick choreography I hope they got like the choreographers from daredevil because that action is still some of the best oh yeah that’s some of the best action we’ve ever seen on screen yeah so we see Danny used the iron fist on the ground against a bunch of thugs we see him use it several times during the scene throughout the course of this trailer where he punches a semi with his iron fist yeah then he punches the ground it just looks like a really cool scene so right after that he’s talking with Colleen and we get one of the worst lines I’ve ever heard out of iron fists mouth which is I didn’t ask for the iron fist I guess you did what are you talking about it’s like it’s like going to the store to buy a gallon of milk then you buy the milk you take it home and then you’re like I didn’t ask for this milk okay it’s like yeah you did cuz you kind of went and you you sought it and you obtained it you enter the competition to obtain it and you used it so yeah this is just a horrible line I’m hoping that maybe it might be kind of like a marketing line as opposed to an actual line that’s used in the good it’s so cliche it’s like falls along the lines of like the when you sign up for this [ __ ] what is it about Danny or at least maybe it’s just Finland portrayal of the character of Danny but there’s really something unlikable about him he’s really whiny yeah nice imagine the iron fist is supposed to be much more mature than he plays him right yeah he’s a little immature he’s a little whiny he’s a little entitled you know he’s whining about so much in his life even though he’s a billionaire I’m a billionaire superhero I didn’t ask for this he seems to have a lot going for him you know he cries he’s a good-looking dude he hasn’t he has a really hot girlfriend he has superpowers but he always finds a reason to complain so it’s just I don’t know I kind of want to see him be more of a badass and less of a a brand yeah it’s just a horrible line I remember in the last season his ability to use the iron fist was kind of inconsistent he’s always find a way for it to be blocked so how is it God my cheese is [ __ ] up yeah I can’t do it yeah but it was just so arbitrary in this trailer alone I think he used the iron fist at like 112 times more than he used in season 1 entirety exactly so at least he seems to be growing as a superhero being able to control his powers a little bit better yeah so that’s pretty cool we see Davos return and he’s talking [ __ ] and it looks like so we get flashbacks of them fighting for the right to challenge Shou Lao the undying dragon for the iron fist and Davos comes in and it looks like he takes the power from Danny and we see a really cool serpent tattoo on his back of course if you’re fans of the comics you know that Davos becomes the steel serpent who has powers similar to Danny it’s an iron fist kind of punch except it’s called the serpent sting instead of the iron fist right but yeah there’s a lot of power in it in the comics which traditionally portrayed as a purple fist but in the show it looks like they’re going with a red fist I wonder why that was a good question would you have preferred a purple fist I think I would have just because it would be truer to the comics and you know purple is the complement to yellow it could have looked cool almost like like a backlight that would look so cool yeah look like a black light fist how cool would that look they they [ __ ] up dammit and shouldn’t have said that the fights between Davis and Danny they look really damn intense like those two guys look like they were putting their all into their choreography yeah for sure it definitely looks like it’s gonna be an interesting dynamic between the two this season the fact that he stole the iron fist from Danny or it looks like that’s what he does through like his blood or something like that yeah he was pretty interesting I’m not sure how he got the serpent sting in the comics he got it from crane mother actually he was the champion of the heavenly City of Kunze instead of Kunlun during hey that was all in the immortal iron fist series that we talked about during the duel episode with iron fist versus bane which if you want to learn more about iron fist go ahead and check that duel episode out that we did it was last year sometime that was a great episode but uh the steel serpent in the comics before he got the serpent sting he was also able to actually drain Danny’s Chi through the steel serpent tattoo on his chest that’s right I think you mentioned that during the episodes bio yes obviously he’s not gonna have that particular power in this season but the effect of drying that she out of Danny is something that he can’t do in the comics that’s interesting but for him to take it from Danny the way he seems to be doing like through his blood or something it’s like really fiendish like he doing it Ernie he didn’t challenge the drag and he’s gonna fight the dragon right yeah see stuff it’s like stealing a paycheck from somebody who earned it yeah exactly yeah we get a brief glimpse of typhoid mary in this she’s fighting Danny Rand in a subway and it’s Alice Eve who actually looks to be doing some fight choreography I don’t know like how good she actually is at the choreography cuz we only get quick flashes of her fighting Danny here I didn’t realize that was her yeah her character of Typhoid Mary doesn’t look anything like she does in the comics she just looks like a woman wearing a black hoodie so it’s pretty interesting you know I thought we were gonna see a lot more from her considering the show’s coming up pretty soon yeah you think that you would want to market probably the biggest star in this series in this season yeah she’s a film actress yeah I really can’t wait to see more of her and see exactly how they’re interpreting her character for the show see if she will have multiple personalities if she does have powers like pyrokinesis with type Mary or telekinesis with Bloody Mary or something like that you know that’d be pretty cool we do get a quick shot of Ward and joy Meacham there carrying each other after getting hurt they really did enjoy their characters in the first season more than I thought I would enjoy bored yeah Ward had a great arc through that first season his relationship with his father Harold and everything was pretty dramatic stuff joy on the other hand she wasn’t that great like her whole turn at the end of season 1 zero sense makes zero sense and I don’t know if they’ll be able to rationalize that within this season but yeah that pretty much does it we get some other cool shots of Davos using the serpent sting and you know punching the walls down like that look punching through bricks and Danny’s punching through trucks that was a cool scene yes it ends with the scene of Danny and Colleen at like a restaurant eating talking about having a date night and also they’re kicking people’s asses in the restaurant yeah that seems kind of similar to the defenders scene in that restaurant which was a great scene yeah it was the whole episode took place in that restaurant but hopefully this isn’t such a retread of that territory but yeah I think that does it for the news yeah we do have a question of the week that’s not really tied into the Iron Fist trailer it’s regarding James Gunn who has sort of I guess officially been fired from Disney now they’ve said that they’re absolutely 100% not going to rehire him for guardians of the galaxy 3 right there had been a lot of speculation as to whether or not he would be returning yeah we got reports that you know some higher-ups are on his side but ultimately I guess Ellen Horne was the one that made the final decision to let him go and we’ve been reporting on this story since you know first started around Comic Con so go ahead and check you know the previous episodes out for our thoughts on those would you find out in the episode descriptions we’ve kind of said everything we wanted to say there’s nothing really new to say yeah there’s actually now that it kind of seems to be over for him yeah but yeah that brings a sort of question of the week what DC character or property would you most like to see James Gunn take on for Warner Brothers right so this is assuming now that James Bond is gonna move on to other properties outside of Marvel we’ve heard reports that DC is actually interested in taking him on to direct or produce one of their projects right so there’s also a rumor that Blum House wants him to create like his own horror universe for them something like that that would be cool to know no one in DC please come to DC James Gunn so if he were to go to DC again what character or property would you like to see him tackle directorial II if that’s a word okay we’ll say this so go ahead and post your answer to our Instagram Twitter Facebook or email us at dynamic duel podcast at gmail.com we’ll pick our favorite answer and draw that person a dynamic duel know price that will post to social media now I remember this is the guy that did guardians of the galaxy so he’s really good with like you know like quirky not well-known characters and he has a group yeah I was gonna say he has a great sense of humor but I really don’t want to say but these movies are really funny and here’s a proven track record he has a proven track record with that kind of material so that does it for the news good good let’s do this yep we’re gonna go ahead and get into the duel for a Martian Manhunter versus vision and find out who would win in a fight [Music] Marshall Mann hunter versus vision as we said at the top of this episode these are two really popular characters in their respective universes with similar power sets that we think would be a good match for each other similar personalities similar personalities to yet definitely for sure we’re also doing this duel now because we’re kind of in a lull in the superhero movie season without anything to really review so next week’s review we’re gonna do a throwback to Avengers age of Ultron and we’re gonna go ahead and review that one and featured heavily in that movie is vision so we think it would be fun to kind of review that movie and do duel with these characters because they’re fun characters essentially yeah yep so the way that we determine a winner on this podcast is similar to the way that the old spike TV show Deadliest Warrior used to do it where they took stats from each warrior and then they compiled them and ran them through a probabilistic model known as the Monte Carlo system which basically plots the statistics along a bell curve within a standard deviation so we take stats from the Marvel official Power Rankings and we extrapolate the DC stats from those measurements yeah we don’t get all of our stats from the Power Rankings because we think there are a few more that would contribute heavily to a battle right but most of them come from there exactly so again this is all math there’s no bias because we are totally biased it has to be mathematical there’s no fan votes no uncharacteristic feats of strength just all stats yes so before we run the simulations we run  breakdown of each character’s history and abilities and then speculate on how we think one of these 1000 matches will go right yep so let’s go ahead and get started with I think it’s my turn to go first so we’ll get started with a vision cool vision is a fascinating hero in his complexities and contradictions though he is artificial a synthetic Android he’s in many ways a perfect being that his human allies can only aspire to he not only fights for Humanity but strives to join their ranks through experiences like love such as for the Scarlet Witch yet to become human would be to become imperfect a paradox his logical mind has yet to rationalize leading to some of Marvel’s most intriguing and Safa cool stories in 1929 a robotic scientist named professor Phineas Horton created what he called the Horton cell which is a synthetic duplicate of organic human cells made from plastic carbon polymers it would serve as the foundation of his work in the creation of artificial life in addition to the Horton cell he created a power source called the solar Jim which much like a solar panel would be used to absorb solar radiation and convert it to energy to power his synthetic creations ten years later at the 1939 World’s Fair Horton hoped to unveil his Android that he called the vision of tomorrow there was a problem with his creation however and that exposure to oxygen would cause the Android to burst into flame that Android became known as the original human torch and was a legendary hero during World War two alongside Captain America and Namor the Submariner so flash-forward two decades later after the war the robot villain known as Ultron kidnapped the aging professor Phineas Horton and forced him to help create an Android that he would use to infiltrate and destroy the Avengers building off a duplicate of the original human torch’s body Horton altered its synthetic cells to give it the ability to alter its density Ultron also commanded that the androids brain be reprogrammed but Horton refused and vision was born with the mind and memories of the original Human Torch Ultron killed Horton for defying him and reprogrammed division’s neural processors with the brain patterns of a deceased Avenger named Simon Williams Wonder Man giving him his base personality now vision was sent out and encountered the Avengers drawing them into Ultron’s death trap the team fought back and defeated him afterward analyzing his body vision rebooted and rejected his creators programming in much the same way Ultron rejected his own and fought alongside the Avengers in defeating Ultron he became a full-fledged and eventual prominent member of the team after long however vision began rebuilding Ultron in secret due to hidden back-end programming using adamantium from shield Ultron destroyed the Avengers mansion defeated the team and escaped to plot humanity’s annihilation iron man hacked visions mind to remove the programming and determine a weakness for Ultron’s now indestructible body despite visions reluctant betrayal The Avengers forgave him and he continued being a valuable member of the team his desire to feel and experience what it was to be human grew over time and during the kree-skrull war he and Wanda Maximoff The Scarlet Witch expressed romantic feelings for each other those feelings blossomed into a relationship and eventually marriage through the use of Wanda’s Chaos magic and probability hexes they were able to conceive twin sons Thomas and William a while later vision was abducted and dismantled by rogue agents of the US government Henry Pym tried to rebuild him as best as he could but vision came out a shell of who he once was devoid of color and emotion his relationship with Wanda and his twins was strained and it was revealed that the magical energy used to create their children unknowingly came from the demon Mephisto who redrew his energy and ended their kids existence Wanda was driven insane by the loss of her children and her husband’s identity and her memory of the twins was magically erased she envisioned separated shortly after vision eventually regained his full emotions and personality and gained a new colorful body like his original he attempted to reconcile with Wanda but was nearly again destroyed in the Avengers battle with Morgan love faith at which point wanted to begin a romantic relationship with Wonder Man back from the dead whom visions personality was initially based off of not long after however the memory of visions and wakanda’s lost twins drove Scarlet Witch insane again and she manipulated reality to bring them back her unstable nature resulted in a series of deadly incidents in which vision was ripped apart and destroyed by she-hulk and the Avengers were disassembled fortunately vision compiled a fail-safe system to seek out new avengers members should the team be killed in battle this led to the formation of the Young Avengers in which visions memories and operating system were uploaded to iron lads armor from the future two members of the team Joaquin and speed were revealed to be reincarnated versions of the souls of his own Wanda’s children no Tony Stark rebuilt vision during the fear itself storyline and during a confrontation between he and Wanda he tells her that he can never forgive her for the chaos she brought upon the Avengers after the age of Ultron storyline vision joined Henry PIMs Avengers AI team and began upgrading his body to be made entirely out of nanobots each but microscopically encoded with his schematics to make it easier to rebuild him should he ever be destroyed again he recently was forced to purge the emotions attached to his memories to free up memory for his processing systems and shortly after decided to take the next step in becoming human by creating his own Android family moving into the suburbs and taking a day job in Washington DC as a consultant the human families envisions a neighborhood have found socializing with his artificial family difficult and some even attacked them this prejudice combined with his family’s in experience with human interactions led to the deaths of several neighbors chillin Grim Reaper and the death of visions wife and son he and his daughter viv felt it best to move on and vision rejoined the Avengers so that’s his history his powers visions primary ability is to alter his density he can become fully intangible letting all physical matter and energy pass through him and at his lowest density become nearly invisible or he can become ten times more dense than depleted uranium fully and vulnerable with enhanced strength of being able to live to over 50 tons though at his highest maximum density he becomes fully immobile in a move he calls physical disruption he can phase through solid matter and re materialize within it for effects ranging from shock to dismemberment of his enemies through the power of his solar jamming his forehead he can emit heat beams of solar radiation through his eyes that can melt steel heat vision essentially with his internal projector he can produce Holograms of any sort of three-dimensional images including disguises he can fly his computer mind and artificial makeup grant him quicker brain function enhanced reflexes and enhanced hearing and vision he has technopathic abilities able to wirelessly interact with nearby computer systems or physically if he needs to via his new nano body he can also self repair and reconstruct from all but the most devastating attacks so--that’s vision he’s a pretty interesting character he’s like a Pinocchio archetype kind of yeah like a Frankenstein Pinocchio robot yeah okay once he wants to be human yeah that’s a great analogy and now that I think about it you know they used the Pinocchio song a lot in the Avengers age of Ultron store that’s right in which as we said before vision was a main character in that movie so that’s probably something that probably didn’t pass over the heads of a lot of viewers but interesting yeah marshallmatters archetype was probably more like mysterious outsider he’s pretty similar to Superman okay it’s like the immigrant motif kind of but whereas like Superman kind of assimilated into human culture him not so much correct yes he sort of refuses to in a way mhm is it because of his appearance do you think because he can choose to look human if he wants to but he rises not to right most of the time right he definitely cherishes his Martian culture he doesn’t want to give that up cool so Martian Manhunter is real name is John John’s which means light of the lights in the Martian language and he was born a twin which is rare currents in Martian culture his twin brother was named malefic which means darkness of the hearts thing and he believes that he was the only Martian in existence without the innate ability of telepathy but in actuality it was a false memory implanted in him after he was psychically stripped of his telepathy for committing a crime John in contrast grew up to become a successful police officer or as it’s known on Mars a Manhunter he married a female Martian named IRA I think it’s Mariah and together they had a daughter named Kim or Kim malefic grew jealous of his brother and hateful of Martian culture in general he engineered a virus that was telepathically transmitted and caused the afflicted to burst into flames and burn to death the virus spread quickly across Martian civilization and wasn’t long before Jean having witnessed the traumatic deaths of his wife and daughter became the last surviving green Martian centuries later an elderly scientist named dr. Saul Odell with dreams of making contact with alien civilizations created what he thought was a communication transmitter and probe and aimed it at Mars what he actually created was a kind of matter transporter that sent a beam across time and space so that it teleported John into his lab only moments after he lost everything cradling his dead daughter the psychologically distraught John broadcasted his anguish telepathically which created a psychic bond with dr. Odell who learned everything about Martian history in an instant John flew into an enraged panic and destroyed dr. Odell’s lab including the transmitter before passing out dr. adel moved john to his nearby mountain cabin in colorado and buried the Martians daughter through their mind linked dr. adel realized ron was attempting to mentally suppress his traumatic memories so dr. adel helps him fabricate a new history for him based on science fiction pulp novels about Mars restoring John’s sanity and instilling in him a sense of super heroism realizing their mental link could potentially undo the reprogramming they had done dr. adel faked his death and Jean went out into the world learning about Earth cultures and protecting innocents as the Martian Manhunter whose green humanoid look was based on dr. Adele’s idea of what a Martian should look like John eventually became the most recognizable and revered hero in the southern hemisphere but eventually he settled back in Colorado near Denver and took up the identity of a police detective named John Jones who had been murdered by corrupt colleagues when he wasn’t solving Denver crime cases he was working with a Justice League a team of which he was a founding member and of she has been a member of in almost each of its incarnations one of those incarnations was known as the Justice League International and while on that team John realized dr. Sawyer Dell was still alive dr. adel had rebuilt his matter transporter and agreed to send John back to Mars where he had a cathartic acceptance of what happened to him his family and his species allowing the psychic remnants of his dead species to move on to the afterlife with the Martian got her on Mir the original Justice League team reformed as the JLA during an event in which a vanguard of the white Martian race arrived on earth disguised as a superhero team known as hyper claimed the warrior culture white Martian race had previously been trapped in the Martian version of the Phantom Zone known as the still zone after a bloody Martian civil war ended with their defeat and imprisonment as the hyper clan the white Martians attempted to discredit the JLA and take over as Earth’s premier super team however Batman and Martian Manhunter both realized the superheroes were Martians and used their innate psychic weakness to fire to defeat them not too long after malefic appeared on earth disguised as the Martian Manhunter and tried to convince the Justice League that Jean was a sociopath by kidnapping other aliens and terraforming a section of Earth to resemble Mars Jean was able to stop malefic and clear his name by removing the mental blocks that inhibited his telepathy which in turn restored malefic psychic weakness to fire and left him helpless as a spaceship they were fighting in crashed into the Sun John seemingly died as well but was able to reconstitute and regenerate his entire body from a previously severed hand later John attempted to overcome his psychic fear and weakness to fire by making a deal with a villainous known as scorch who wanted his help in sorting her own confused memories and mental issues during their meditations they fell in love though they also discovered the Martian psychic fear fire was implied by the omens who you can learn more about in my green lantern bio in our Green Lantern versus Nova duel episode before the Owen tampering the Martians are fiery highly aggressive beings known as the burning who are on the verge of interstellar conquest and were able to reproduce asexually through fire afraid of the threat the burning possessed the Owens re-engineered the Martians into two genetic races the warlike whites and the peaceful greens and made them psychically adverse to fire realizing this removed Shawn’s psychic blocks to fire and unleashed the genetic memory of the burning which possessed John and turned him into a giant fiery Martian known as furnace furnace was able to defeat the entire JLA except for plastic man who’s in flammability and superior shape-shifting abilities helped to restore the Martian Manhunter along with several telepathic League members who helped your on regain control mentally well he managed to overcome his fear of fire he remade week two fires of psychic significance such as flames of passion I don’t even know what that means now villains must often apart some kind of psychic significance when they create a fires however as John was killed by a fiery sphere wilded by the villain Libra during the final crisis event he did come back as a black lantern zombie during the blackest night storyline but was fully resurrected by DC’s spirit of creation known as the entity in the subsequent brightest day event after his rebirth he learned of a female Martian named Decatur as alive on earth who was also able to withstand her on nears curse due to her isolated imprisonment on Mars not having the psychic support John had early on she was driven mad and was forced to repress her Martian memories which were restored when she saw John resurrected she attempted to force her on to be her mates but he refused to mentally bond with her due to her fractured psychopathic after she tricked him into a relationship by creating a mental illusion of his family on a healthy repopulated Mars the two fought and she forced John to throw her into the Sun they one of the Martian managers last acts before the new 52 reboot was to visit the elderly daughter of dr. Sol Odell in a retirement home disguised as her father tucking her into bed and restoring her aged mind in the new 52 Martian Manhunter was not a founding member of the Justice League but he was an original member of the government organized Justice League of America which she was chosen for due to his power superiority to Superman so what the heck is someone like vision going to do with him B does s nope that perish superiority stems from his innate Martian ability to control and regenerate the sub molecular structure of his very being allowing him to change his shape density and visibility along the spectrum of light this grants empowers such a super strength super speed enhanced senses intangibility and invisibility it can also absorb mass for matter around him to increase his size he has one of the most powerful minds in the universe capable of interplanetary telepathy like of everyone on the entire planet he can read minds control minds restructure minds wipe minds and projects mental illusions he also has telekinesis which you most often uses for flight and as a force blast from his eyes known as Martian beams but he could also use it to levitate move or freeze objects honestly it’s probably easier to come up with a list of powers he doesn’t have so stupid but of course he loses control over his molecular structure and goes into psychic turmoil when he is near flames of passion so stupid I don’t like a Martian Manhunter I think I know he’s kind of a hodgepodge of powers I think is overpowered to begin with I think DC just never really knew what to do with him he’s a Superman clone but he also has all the powers he was a Superman clone who never really had the same kind of power definition the Superman had like when his movie came out uh-huh Martian Manhunter didn’t have that so his powers will always just kind of continually expand it upon right yeah that’s kind of dumb they need to simplify that stuff like I think one time I wrote a letter I don’t think I ever sent it to DC but I wanted them to just strip away Marshall Manhunters weakness to fire but in doing so he would just be left with the powers of telepathy and shape-shifting I guess I wanted him to retain his cooler like Martian appearance were his head’s all tall like a conehead yeah I think that was a much cooler look for him than the bald green guy he’s definitely embraced a little bit more of a Martian kind of conehead look more recently oh yeah I would get rid of his Martian vision too because that’s a ripoff of Superman - and it’s telekinesis so basically he would just be telepaths shapeshifter he doesn’t have heat vision the beams a huge shoot from his eyes like aren’t lasers like I’ve seen them set things on fire but I think it’s just more from like friction he actually has no way of like projecting energy like he doesn’t do that so yeah it’s not heat vision gotcha all right so now that we’ve gone the history’s out of the way we’re going to go ahead and speculate on how we think one of these 1000 matches is going to go right so the rules that we set up for this match is that the characters start about 50 yards apart and that they don’t know anything about each other other than each other our threats right they have to destroy the other one they are fighting in a non environment location or rather an environment that doesn’t play any sort of role in the match itself because we don’t take stats for the environment Chris is variable they could be fighting in any number of locations and one character could have a specific advantage in one location and not another so it’s just something we don’t want to account for right exactly like if they were fighting near volcano obviously Martian Manhunter would lose right or like in a steel factory or something I don’t know something with lots of fire around hewed loose so yeah no environment is what we say yeah and I also want to clarify that when we determine the winner it’s not based on the speculation it’s based on stats right and honestly I’m pretty interested to see how the speculation is going to go because I’m not 100% convinced that Martian Manhunter the will work on vision synthetic brain right yeah it’s gone both ways in the comics there have been instances where visions synthetic brain has been affected by psychics good and there have been instances where he just completely no sells a telepathic attack so it’s almost as if the writers themselves can’t determine how human the vision exactly is mm-hmm because you know there have been points where he’s dreamt before he feels emotional love but it’s unclear as to whether or not it’s real love or it’s you know an artificial manifestation of love right yeah exactly I am of the house that he is a robot he’s definitely not human though he’s you know comprised of horton cells which are made to mimic human cells he’s artificial he can’t be manipulated psychically what’s your take on it do you think that vision can be affected telepathically does it make sense giving his artificial structure I think maybe he could but it would be unlike anything Martian monitor has encountered before that’s not necessarily true I’ve seen instances in which Martian Manhunter has been able to interact with artificial minds like Amazo right Amazo i think he once interacted with Superman’s ship as well and I just think that’s plot induced stupidity does it make sense for an artificial mind to have psychic capacity and so I also think it’s applying to stupidity when the vision is able to be a text telepathically it just doesn’t register so personally I would like to see none of that happen yeah bet you would huh but what do you think I’m torn now I think we both agreed that it probably shouldn’t happen yes yeah definitely yeah let’s agree that a psychic cannot effect an artificial brain fine it’s not like there’s an aunt to martial Manhunters abilities he can do everything else right you could probably forfeit his telepathic abilities against vision for this one match sure I don’t have a problem with it because I really think that’s how it would go down yeah okay so yeah that’s what we’re doing and let’s go heading into the battle all right okay so they start out 50 yards apart right she starts the match well Martian manager tries to do it ethics can realizes that he can’t so then he switches to his Martian vision getting a spectral readouts of marsh banter could do a spectral Rina of things yes he could see the entire spectrum including like x-rays and stuff like that so he’s basically looking at the energy has x-ray vision just like Superman yes here’s all the vision if you can see the entire spectrum you have x-ray vision you have infrared vision that’s true so yeah he essentially just sees what vision is made of and well vision will scan Martian Manhunter as well he has a database of pretty much everything within his head so usually he would be able to identify the being that he’s confronting but in this case he would probably about him all he would see it was you know a bunch of molecules just like swarming around each other shape-shifting molecules I guess right yeah so in this case like his techno Pathak scans would be inert as well because there would be no database entry on Martian Manhunter for him to reference so he wouldn’t know his weaknesses or anything like that great okay so so now that they’re done scanning each other essentially yeah they pretty much know what they’re dealing with in that Martian Manhunter knows he’s fighting a synthetic being and vision knows that he’s fighting some sort of alien right so let’s say Martian Manhunter starts off with his Martian beams he shoots out it was similar to like Cyclops he shoots out a beam a telepathic force okay from his eyes towards vision and vision is going to react by going intangible so that beams just gonna pass right through him he’s gonna fly up into the air and then retaliate in kind with his own beams from his eyes his his solar radiation beams mm-hmm which set martial Manhunters how did I know I know which set Martian Manhunter ‘he’s cape on fire yeah well guess what to f’ing bad that vision is a robot and can’t impart psychic significance into his fire creation so Marshall manager you’re saying is not affected by actual fire anymore um I’m gonna say he is honestly because I thought those really dumb when they did that in the in the comics well I mean like you can’t make stuff up like have you seen him interact with fire in a significant way in the comics and not be injured no I haven’t in fact it wasn’t too long after that when they established the whole like flames of psychic significance thing that he was actually killed by a fiery spear as I mentioned in my bio right so it was almost like DC was calling [ __ ] on that whole thing anyway right right okay right so and definitely in the in the new 52 that’s not continuity anymore so [ __ ] Martian manager and his cape was actually part of him oh really yes oh but if you just catch the cape on fire he could shed that it’s probably gonna start like screaming in agony gross as the rest of him just like moves away from it yeah that’s when he gets scared and he turns invisible and intangible okay so that the heat beams don’t hurt him well no not that if he was near the flames he wouldn’t be able to do that because he would lose control over his molecular structure but because he was moving away from them he’s doing it to hide from vision cuz now he knows that vision could create fire uh-huh so he’s essentially hiding but he’s moving closer to vision vision has scans he could see across the spectrum as well so if you’d be able to find Martian Manhunter on or whatever spectrum he is visible also he would be able to hear him because he has enhanced hearing and vision senses okay so then Martian Manhunter just rushes vision as he turns invisible and vision is like oh where did he go and start scanning things by this point Martian man enters moved behind him and just reaches his arm right through vision with his intangibility well as vision notices that Marshall mantra has reached through him intangibly vision becomes intangible as well so they’re both intangible so they’re like slapping each other but it’s their hands are just going through each other geez okay I’m Stan I’m terrified of the solar gym right now yeah you are okay so when they’re doing that Marsh and rancher stops and uses a telekinetic force push on vision to knock him backwards can you do that against an intangible you don’t know I guess you can’t because earlier we tried to use the Martian vision right in a width room right okay Marsha banter is one of the most powerful members in DC and I’m having trouble doing anything to this vision guy yeah well it’s like basically whoever turns tangible first to loses because if you know a vision turns tangible he can be broken by Marshall Manhunter and if Martian Manhunter turns tangible he’ll be blasted by solar radiation right so I think Marsh Manhunters goal from this point would be to somehow disrupt the solar Jim okay yes so as they’re fighting intangibly Marshall manager reaches into visions head which is intangible and just holds his fist to there there’s wait just frickin waits for him to turn tangible can’t vision just phase away from Marshall my hunters hand to them no cuz Martian manager just keeps up with them just keeps his hand there around his solar jet okay another thing with this there’s no way to get out of this this is like the weirdest stalemate of a match ever and it happened pretty quick it happened really quick we have to do something Marshall manager can wait for him to turn tangible you can’t wait longer than vision because Martian Manhunter is a organic being who needs to consume food and water and stuff like that so this is a waiting game Vision has like all day long okay so that’s when Markham and her just like stretches his arms like whatever food source may be nearby and just like brings it to his mouth and just like Fred envisioned like I could [ __ ] wait what are you gonna do alright okay wait actually I think I just thought of something that vision can do to kind of break this sort of stalemate that they have going on okay all right so vision is going to go so intangible that he almost turns invisible but he’s going to project a hologram of himself fully tangible like 10 meters away so Marshall minders gonna be like oh there he is so he’s gonna go after him hmm okay okay let’s say the Marshall manager is confused - he’s like oh [ __ ] this guy could also duplicate himself or teleport teleport or something but you said he Gurley turned near-invisible not only has he turned nearly invisible through his density alteration it’s also been stated that he can use his holographic projection to turn himself completely invisible because he can also disguise himself to occasion those pala grams so Marshall manager can’t feel him he can’t sense him he sees another okay that’s fair that’s that’s a good move thank you so he goes over to the hologram to attack him yeah and all of a sudden the hologram disappears and he’s like what just happened and next thing you know vision he’s going to grab Martian Manhunter quickly increases density to its max and they both slam into the ground okay Martian manager as this is happening as he’s falling he realizes that he’s gonna be slammed to the ground that’s when he just kind of like morphs his body it’s like a liquid and like moves around slides around vision so now he’s the one on top and with his extra strength and in force of his flight he’s one who shoves and slams vision into the ground okay well vision wouldn’t be hurt because he’s invulnerable while he’s in that super dense state so he’s like in a vision size hole in the ground right well I don’t know what marshmallow would do he’d probably just keep pounding on him and I think vision would probably slip into the ground where Marshall Metro wouldn’t be able to see him where she mentor would be able to see him how would he be able to cuz x-ray vision he could see through ground yeah vision doesn’t know that so he’s facing underground hoping to ambush Marsh Manhunter from below by phasing up through the ground and doing that physical disruption effect so he goes right beneath Martian Manhunter Martian Manhunter does see him vision flies up as fast as he can so right when a vision comes up from the ground intangible planning to become tangible within Martian Manhunter Martian Manhunter sees this coming right you could see him okay so he does that comes up becomes tangible vision that’s when Martian Manhunter shape-shifts really quickly to the of him and rips off this partially tangible solar Jen okay so then hurdles it into a non environment far away distance okay so you’re basically essentially taking away visions power source at this point because is the soul gem is his power source right so now he’s running on low battery right yeah it’s okay so he’s on low battery he knows that he doesn’t have much time left now if you were to use his solar vision it would deplete his power even more so I think we had this but what he’s gonna do is he’s gonna rush martian manhunter with incredibly dense fists and just like punched through his face punched through his face yeah punched through his face okay well martian monitor can regenerate so right when boozes fist back marshall and rose face reforms there is nothing that these guys can do to each other although now vision is on low battery so even if you were to remain intangible for the rest of his battery life eventually you would deplete yeah you want to take it to the simulations to see who’d win this yes this is so hard alright let’s take it to the stats we’ll be back alright did that speculation go anything like how you thought it would kind of I knew this was gonna be a really hard match because they King both going tangible yeah they’re both like invasive powerhouses stat wise looking at the stats they’re mostly comparable Martian Manhunter is faster and stronger by far right than vision we did account for Marsh Manhunters weakness to fire and visions solar radiation beams and also Marshall managers inability to use telepathy against vision right you know marker Manhunter was slightly nerfed in these stats usually he wouldn’t be going up against any other opponent but I think that’s what makes this such a great match is that vision does have those slights leg ups on Marshall Manhunter yeah Marshall managers again one of those powerful beings in the DC Universe I think if any match is a good match it’s this one just because anyone else he was just curb stomp right exactly that’s exactly what I was gonna say alright so we ran the 1000 simulations using the Monte Carlo method and we have come back with a winner and I’ll say that it’s it’s it’s closer than I thought it would b i actually thought that this might be a little bit more of a gap than it was the winner between Marshall Manhunter and vision is what this marker fits I would hear Marshall Manhunter yes Martian Manhunter out of 1000 battles he won 587 matches I mean only one 413 of the fights that is closer than I thought it would be it is closer like I mean like I was rooting for my boy but I wasn’t sure how these tests were gonna go because I know how fast and strong Marshall Manhunter is and he just has all the damn powers I know he’s a cheater character so I maybe went into this match knowing that region was gonna lose but I really wanted him to put up a good fight and I think that he actually did better than I thought he would he’s my bully but I mean are you really that surprised though he’s like even in the movie were about to review age of Ultron he was like one of the most powerful characters on that roster that’s true yeah he was able to lift Thor’s hammer and everything like that so that was pretty cool but yeah he was a total powerhouse on that team in that movie and I really liked the way they portrayed him in that movie can’t wait for Marshall manager to be in a movie Martian Manhunter will never be in a movie that’s really sure he’s too ill-defined I guess he was in the Supergirl show though right yeah he’s still in there oh really and if my Martian Manhunter movie ever gets made we have that oh right yeah if you join our patreon then you get access to Jonathan’s movie pitch of a Martian Manhunter movie in which he breaks down the story and the cast and the director of what he thinks would be the ultimate Martian Manhunter film so go ahead and check that out if you get a chance that does it for this episode as we mentioned before in our next episode we will be reviewing Avengers age of Ultron just to continue on this vision that we’re going on because I think he’s a really cool character look forward to that and go ahead and visit dynamic duel comm to check out links to all of our social media sites as well as our merch store where we have a whole bunch of new designs for you to choose from in terms of Marvel and DC t-shirts yeah we recently updated about 90% of our designs a lot of the stuff we have up there is actually our no prize illustrations but I made it so that we could put it on any colored shirt that you want right because before they had to go in white back right right yeah so that’s pretty cool yeah definitely check those out by visiting dynamic duel calm yeah whatever podcast platform you’re listening to us on currently please don’t forget to rate review share subscribe all the things with all of your friends and all of your family yeah we definitely appreciate the people who have reviewed us and rated us it definitely helps spread the word and we appreciate it as well it sustains us it’s like my lifeblood yeah thanks for everyone who does that and we’ll talk to you guys in a week and up up and away true believers