Monitor vs Watcher

00:00
This is a DynaMic Network podcast.

00:24
Hey and welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters and stat-based battle simulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm his twin brother Johnny DC. And in this episode, guys, we're going to find out who would win in a fight between DC's The Monitor and Marvel's The Watcher. Now we're coming straight off of our review of What If Season 3 in which The Watcher Uwatu

00:53
plays a prominent role, and the executive producers figured now was as good a time as any to use that character in a duel and find out who would win when we put him against DC's equivalent. Yeah, for a while there we were considering doing anti-Monitor or maybe Metron against Watcher, but we voted on Monitor. This speculation will get pretty interesting. Yeah, we'll find out who will win between those two characters later on this episode. Before that, we're going to break down the comic book movie news to come out this past week of which there was none. You get nothing.

01:22
You stole fizzy lifting drinks. Good day, sir. Yeah, there's a ton of rumors going on out there right now in regards to both the DCU and MCU, but nothing really concrete. We will be breaking down this week's no prize winners and giving a question of the week though. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent Duel simulator AJ9K has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up.

01:52
Why hello there, do you want even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic Duel community on Patreon, where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic two-oh tier gives you access to our Discord chat server. The fantastic four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly,

02:12
The Diner Mike podcast network tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamicduel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ and AK and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast.

02:37
Be sure guys to tune into the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network this week including Max Destruction which pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other. This week, hosts Scotty and Gilly are finding out who would win between Homelander from The Boys and Omni-Man from Invincible. It's a big one. On the Send Your World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga characters. Zach is off this week, but make sure to check out his latest episodes if you have not already.

03:07
On the Console Combat podcast, host John and Dean simulate battles between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode, they found out who would win between Jax from Mortal Kombat and Jack 8 from Tekken. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize.

03:32
A No Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award that we pushed on Instagram for the person we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week we asked you guys if you could recast any other DCEU actor in a DCU role, who would it be and why? And this is coming off the news that Jason Momoa has been cast as Lobo in James Gunn's new DC movie universe.

03:59
having previously been in the DCEU of course as Aquaman. We got a total of four answers, so we have three honorable mentions to go over before revealing this week's no-price winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Colby Henches, who said, Hey boys, Colby Henches. If any DCEU actor were coming back, I'd like to see it be everybody's favorite Flash Thompson, Joe Manganiello. He only got to be Deathstroke for like two seconds on screen.

04:28
I'd love to see him come back as Deathstroke, but if we're recasting, I think he'd be a great Midnighter in the upcoming Authority movie. Yeah, Deathstroke is an A-tier villain in DC Comics, not only for teams like the Titans, but also the Justice League. I would love to see him in action on screen in a way that we haven't before, like on the small screen with the Titans show or even Arrow. And yeah, Joe Manganiello was definitely robbed of the opportunity to play that badass character in a movie.

04:57
No one quite has had it as bad, I think, as Joe Manganiello. So I think he would be great in the role. I think he deserves to be seen. Yeah, 100%. I also would have hated him as Midnighter, but I would let him choose what role he wanted to play. Great answer, Colby Hentges. Let's go ahead and move on to our next honorable mention given by Miggy Matangian, who said. Hey, what's up, guys? This is Miggy, and if I could recast a DCEU actor in the DCU, I would probably go with Keirsey Clemens as Miss Martian.

05:26
She played Iris West previously. I think she just kind of has the vibe to like play an innocent character who's secretly hiding something. I could also see Jack Dylan Grazer as Beast Boy. Thanks guys. Yeah, those are both great options for young heroes within DC. I totally get what you're coming from with Kirsi Clemens. Kind of having those doe eyes makes her look innocent and cute like you mentioned. I don't know if you mentioned the cute part. I added that part. But yeah, Miss Martian should be cute.

05:54
Jack Dylan Grazer as Beast Boy 2 is also a top choice. I will miss Ryan Potter in the role, but yeah, Jack Dylan Grazer has all of the qualities that I think you would want in a Beast Boy actor. If Keirce Clemens was Ms. Martian, who would you cast as Marsha Manhunter? Oh, Dennis Haysbert. Terrific voice, great actor. I think you would be perfect. That's a good call, that's a good call. Great answer, Miggy Mathenkean. Our next honorable mention goes to Brandon Estregard, who said. Hey guys.

06:23
If I was able to bring back one actor from the DCU, it would have to be Eldris Hodge. I would cast him as Icon, and for bonus I would cast Bailey Bass as Rocket. Yeah, Eldris Hodge is another great actor that I will definitely miss if he's not brought back for James Gunn's DCU. I think he would make, like, really any great superhero. I would love to see him as Icon, because I would love for there to be an Icon movie. That would be a fantastic story to put on the screen, for sure.

06:52
Icons like Superman, but he's different enough where I think audiences would really latch onto it. I'm not familiar with Bailey Bass. I guess she was an avatar, the second one. But yeah, from the looks of it, I think she would be a terrific Rocket as well. Yeah, we pit Rocket against Spider-Gwen in a Duel episode. If you guys want to learn more about Icon and Rocket. But great answer, Brandon Estregard. The winner of this week's No Prize goes to Noah Terry, who said, Hey, guys, so if I could recast any TCU actor into the DCU, it would be

07:22
Asher Angel aka Billy Batson as Nightwing. I think that he can definitely act with heart. He's no stranger to action and he would just be a great fit to see him in Batman, the Brave and the Bold. So that's my answer. Thanks, bye guys. Yeah, I cannot wait to see Nightwing on the big screen. He's a really important character.

07:44
You know, besides the Trinity, I think he's probably the fourth most important character in DC comics. And Asher Angel definitely has the look for Nightwing. He may be a little young for the character, but hey, if that's the case, there's always Red Hood. By the time the movie comes out, he'll be old enough. Do you think he would do as good of a job as Dick Grayson as Chris O'Donnell did? Yeah, that's not even a question. I'm not concerned about that. My big concern is can he do a better job than Brenton Thwaites from the Titan series?

08:12
because Brenton Thwaites is a phenomenal actor and he did way better than was even necessary for the character of Dick Grayson in Nightwing in that show. That's true, yeah, he would be the guy to beat. He's by far the best Dick Grayson on screen. Great answer, Noah Terry, you win this week's No Prize. If you, the listener, want a shot at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on this episode when we'll be asking another Question of the Week. And now that that's done, on to the news. There is no news. That's right, nevermind.

08:41
On to the question of the week.

08:47
What Marvel or DC theatrical film are you most looking forward to in 2025? That of course includes Superman, which is DC's only theatrical release this year, Captain America Brave New World, which releases in just about a month, The Fantastic Four First Steps, or Thunderbolts. Let us know which one you guys are most pumped to see in theaters in 2025.

09:12
Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before January 18th.

09:41
But I think we're ready now to go ahead and dive into our duel and find out who would win in a fight between DC's monitor and Marvel's watcher.

10:05
Alright, the Monitor versus the Watcher. Now, as I mentioned earlier, we're doing this episode as a tie-in to the review of What If Season 3, which we spoke about last episode. At the end of that season, the character of the Watcher, also known as Uwatu, kicks all kinds of ass. He throws down against the other Watchers, and it was really a sight to behold. It was a great way to close out the show, despite the fact that it kinda goes against the pacifist ideals of the character.

10:34
So this will be an interesting duel to get through in pitting two guys who are basically sworn to inaction against each other. Yeah, that's more of a watcher thing than a monitor thing. But yeah, these are essentially two characters who weren't created to interact in any way. They were just created to observe. So in determining how these characters would fight, we had to get kind of creative. Yeah, we've gotten creative in a few of our duel episodes before. Like if you listen to the Riddler versus Arcade, those are two characters.

11:04
who don't really throw down a lot. You know, they use their mind in the battle, which is always hard to speculate on. So we ended up coming up with riddles to give each other to see who had the strongest mind. In the Mephisto versus Sandman duel episode, there was a game that was played between Sandman and the devil in the Sandman comic book series that we decided to run with for that duel speculation. And that was a lot of fun. And even if you look at our most recent duel episode, the one we did at the end of last year,

11:33
where we pit dog pool against ace the bat hound. That was a different take. We put them against each other in a dog show because we didn't really wanna see two dogs tearing each other apart like in an actual dog fight. So we've gotten creative with this stuff before and I'm really excited to show you guys how we're going to pit these two observers against each other and test their observational skills. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I'm also looking forward to just giving the backstory of the monitor because giving the backstory of the monitor.

12:01
is kind of like giving the backstory of the DC universe as a whole. So I kind of feel like this is a special episode. That's gonna be a really boring story. You could fuck you, fuck you. To explain our methodology behind our duels, let's go to our sentient Duel simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ 9K, tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our Duel matchups. Yes, of course, sir.

12:28
The way I determine a winner between the contestants is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range,

12:57
damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman.

13:23
So the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. Thanks AJ and NK. Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down each character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out.

13:50
Beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to go first with the Marvel character, so let me go ahead and tell you guys all about Uwatu the Watcher. The Watchers are one of the most ancient and advanced races in the Marvel Universe, originating billions of years ago. Known initially as the Luminous, they were revered for their vast knowledge and cosmic power, capable of transforming their bodies into light and traversing the universe in an instant. Their altruistic mission began

14:15
with the noble goal of sharing their advanced knowledge to uplift less developed civilizations and foster universal progress. However, their first attempt to aid the planet Prasilius by introducing nuclear technology ended in catastrophic failure. The Prasilikans weaponized the knowledge, plunging the world into a devastating nuclear war that annihilated their race. Ashamed and burdened by guilt, the Luminous took a solemn vow to observe and record the universe without interference, renaming themselves the Watchers.

14:45
Relocating to various parts of the cosmos, they built an extraordinary repository of knowledge called the Acycopedia Universum, and established their sacred code of non-interference. Over millennia, they became cosmic chroniclers, silently witnessing the unfolding history of the universe, preserving its secrets, and standing as eternal guardians of knowledge. The lessons from Priscilla Kiss forever shaped their philosophy, instilling a deep-seated fear of unintended consequences and their cosmic responsibilities. Among the Watchers,

15:15
Uatu was uniquely drawn to the complexity and resilience of Earth and its solar system. Establishing his base in the blue area of the moon, Uatu faithfully upheld his duties for millennia. His father, Ikor, was a staunch advocate of the Watcher's Code, shaping Uatu's early understanding of their mission and instilling in him a deep sense of responsibility. Despite his upbringing, Uatu developed a profound fascination with humanity and its capacity for both greatness and destruction.

15:44
The unique Duelity of human nature with its boundless potential deeply resonated with Uatu, fostering a strong emotional connection with Earth's inhabitants. Uatu's first recorded interaction with humanity occurred in 1602, when a temporarily displaced Captain America threatened to unravel the time stream. Uatu revealed himself to an Elizabethan-era Doctor Strange who was instrumental in facilitating Captain America's return to his rightful time, thus preserving the integrity of the timeline.

16:13
This event marked the beginning of a long history of subtle interventions that would define Uatu's role as Earth's watcher. In modern times, Uatu's fascination with humanity deepened when the Fantastic Four ventured to the moon and discovered his citadel. You can learn more about the Fantastic Four in their duel against the Justice Society. Uatu observed the Fantastic Four's battle against the Russian scientist known as the Red Ghost and his Super Apes, a conflict he allowed to play out as a test of their mettle and unity.

16:42
Impressed by the Fantastic Four's victory, Uatu began to subtly intervene in critical events on Earth, justifying his actions as necessary to safeguard the planet from existential threats. His involvement with the Fantastic Four established a precedent for future interactions with Earth's heroes, further intertwining his destiny with theirs. Among Uatu's most significant violations of the Watcher's Code was his involvement in humanity's first encounter with Galactus, the world's devouring cosmic entity.

17:12
Using his advanced technology, Uatu attempted to cloak Earth from Galactus' detection, and later guided the Human Torch to Galactus' worldship to retrieve the Ultimate Nullifier, the only weapon capable of deterring the World's Devourer. You can learn more about Galactus in his duel against the Spectre. Though Galactus ultimately spared Earth, Uatu's actions drew the attention of his fellow Watchers, leading to a trial that found him guilty of repeated interference. Despite their disapproval,

17:39
Uatu's love for humanity compelled him to continue observing Earth and its heroes closely, often justifying his defiance by the planet's unique potential and his belief that Earth held a special place in the cosmos. Over the following years, Uatu played a pivotal role in more events. He warned the Fantastic Four of threats like the Molecule Man and the Overmind, assisted the Avengers in battles against time-traveling foes such as King the Conqueror, and provided invaluable guidance during crises like the Kreisgrul War.

18:08
Yet Uatu's compassion extended beyond humanity. He offered aid to extraterrestrial allies like the Silver Surfer, and intervened in cosmic disputes that threatened the stability of the universe. His penchant for continuing to bend the rules led to increased conflict with other Watchers, including his nephew, Eren. As a young Watcher who had not yet been assigned a station, Eren also broke the Watcher's code and schemed to manipulate the Fantastic Four to create a pocket universe that he could rule on his own.

18:36
Uatu ultimately subdued Eren, an act that sacrificed his own status among the Watchers, as they stripped him of his title and exiled him from their order. Despite his exile, Uatu's bond with Earth remained unbroken. He continued to witness humanity's triumphs and tragedies. However, Uatu's history took a tragic turn as a citadel on the moon was attacked by a group of villains who sought to plunder his vast repository of knowledge. Uatu was gravely wounded and one of his eyes…

19:04
containing the secrets of everything he had observed was stolen. Nick Fury, senior, seeking to prevent further misuse of the Watcher's knowledge, confronted the injured Uatu, who after being attacked had now become more steadfast in his code of non-interference. When Uatu refused to divulge his attackers identities, Fury took the drastic step of killing him with a gamma irradiated bullet and taking his remaining eye.

19:30
This granted Nick Fury all of Uatu's knowledge, and he reluctantly inherited his role as Earth's observer, now known as the Unseen. You can learn more about Nick Fury Sr. in his son's duel against Rick Flag. However, Uatu was later miraculously resurrected from his own eye when the Unseen happened upon some ancient alien relics. Uatu reclaimed his role as the Watcher and employed the now-

19:53
powerless Nick Fury to act as his agent against a newly discovered renegade faction of Priscilla Kins, the same race believed to have destroyed themselves all those eons ago. As they were now waging a war against the Watchers, Uatu traveled to his home planet of T-37X to call the other Watchers to action. Yet they still vowed not to interfere so as not to repeat the mistakes of their past, and the Watchers imprisoned Uatu. Using a device called the Apex of All Realities, which could see what-if worlds,

20:22
they made Uatu watch an alternate reality in which he had not helped the Fantastic Four against Galactus. He saw that not only would Earth have repelled the World Devourer on its own, but the planet would have developed into a scientific utopia. Distraught, Uatu was soon rescued by Nick Fury, and he later learned that that alternate Earth would have eventually been destroyed by its own technology. As the Priscilla Kins poisoned the Watcher's

20:52
who merged with the apex of all realities to become the one and only Watcher. He used his increased power to restore the Priscilla's home, and reinstated Nick Fury Senior as Earth's new Watcher. And that's his backstory. Powers-wise, the Watcher, like every member of his race, is considered a cosmic-level being with vast power and knowledge. Though he's sworn to inaction, he will occasionally take the minimal steps necessary to prevent large-scale death and destruction.

21:20
Among his vast power set is omniscient level cosmic awareness and senses, immortality, telepathy on a global scale, teleportation on a universal scale, invisibility, illusion casting, time travel, flight, vast durability, size alteration, vast cosmic energies that can create blasts on a global scale or shields or other constructs. He also has an extra-dimensional portal that he can use to see into alternate realities.

21:50
He is all-knowing, he's all-powerful, and today he's gonna kick all kinds of monitor ass. Bro, the Watcher is like monitor light. What are you talking about? If by monitor light you mean gonna totally stomp all over monitor's ass, then yeah. No, you don't know what light means, apparently. You'll get what I'm talking about when I go over the monitor's backstory.

22:17
was one of three cosmic siblings created by Perpetua, a celestial being known as a Hand that hailed from the greater omniverse. The Hands were tasked with creating multiverses within the omniverse using anti-crisis energy from the source, God essentially, intended to pass their energies back to him upon completion. Perpetua, however, defied her purpose, forging a multiverse fueled by negative crisis energy.

22:46
the DC Multiverse, designed to perpetuate itself through cycles of crises and rebirth that would keep her alive. Perpetua shaped her multiverse into three distinct realms, dark matter of creative potential, positive matter of constancy and order, and destructive antimatter. To oversee these realms, she created her three sons. Marnovu, the Monitor, was charged with safeguarding the positive matter realm.

23:13
and preserving the universes within it from existential threats. Alpheus, the World Forger, crafted potential universes within the Dark Matter Realm. Mobius, the Anti-Monitor, governed the Anti-Matter Realm, tasked with ensuring the light of creation did not breach the boundaries of the Greater Omniverse and alert the Source. Curious about the Greater Omniverse, Marnovu peered into it and its other multiverses, becoming aware of his mother's crime.

23:41
When he confronted Perpetua, she revealed her intent to remain as their multiverse's eternal protector and shared her vision of omniversal conquest. To achieve this, she merged Martians and humans to create an army of perfect and immortal beings known as Apex Predators, genetically designed for endless warfare. Horrified and fearing the judgment of the source, Marnovu rejected his mother, who unleashed her Apex Predators on him.

24:11
Marnovu eventually united with Alpheus and Mobius to oppose their mother. In their Promethean galaxy, they created a colossal tuning fork tower in an attempt to communicate with the Omniverse to expose Perpetua's crimes, and though she attempted to intervene by unleashing her army on them, her sons were successful. The source responded by sending a cosmic raptor, a manifestation of judgment, to confront Perpetua.

24:39
Perpetua and all of her power were imprisoned within a source wall made up of her apex predators, a boundary that marked the multiverse's edge. Rather than destroy Perpetua's creation, the multiverse was reset, including the three brothers, with Marnovu coalescing over time on the moon of Oa in the Prime Universe and Mobius on the moon of Chord in the Antimatter Universe.

25:09
sought to destroy him, beginning by conquering the antimatter universe and subjugating the citizenry of Kord into becoming his army. He transferred the most loyal of Kord's inhabitants into shadow demons and corporeal extensions of his will, while drafting others into his army of Thundererers, warriors equipped with devastating lightning bolts. Marnovu, aware of his brother's actions, eventually went to war with Mobius in a universal battle between the barrier of their universes.

25:38
that spanned a million years. Their feud eventually ended in a stalemate, leaving both the monitor and the anti-monitor inert and trapped in a state of dormancy. For nine billion years, they remained motionless, forgotten by the countless worlds their battle had once threatened. Eventually, Krona, a curious scientist from the planet Maltus, sought to know the origins of the universe, and in his experimentations, fractured the newly stabilized multiverse

26:07
into infinite parallel universes. Though Corona mistakenly believed he had created the multiverse, his actions merely revealed its existence to his reality, destabilizing it further. The Malthusians suppressed the story of Perpetua, fearing the consequences of her legacy. Pariah, a scientist from a fringe universe like Corona, unintentionally discovered the anti-matter universe, accidentally unleashing it into his own and destroying it.

26:37
This act also awakened Mobius, as the antimatter universe expanded to fill the void of the one Pariah destroyed, increasing Mobius' domain and power. Re-amassing his army and sending universe-destroying waves of antimatter into the multiverse, Mobius determined that to defeat Marnovu, he could gain infinite power by destroying the now infinite multiverse. Sensing Mobius' resurgence, Marnovu also awoke and prepared for the coming crisis.

27:06
Establishing a base in space, he used advanced technology to study the multiverse and identify champions capable of defending it. Among these was Harbinger, a girl he rescued and empowered to serve as his emissary. As Mobius's antimatter wave began consuming universes, Marnovu devised a plan to preserve what remained. He constructed colossal tuning fork towers to stabilize surviving Earths, which were at the centers of each universe.

27:34
tasked his champions with defending these devices. Harbinger was sent to retrieve the infant Alexander Luther Jr, the last survivor of Earth-3, whose parents sent him in a rocket ship to Earth-1 during an antimatter wave, turning him into a being made of both positive and antimatter. Mobius, however, subtly corrupted Harbinger by possessing her multiversal counterparts with shadow demons, and successfully tricked her into killing the monitor.

28:03
Marnovu foresaw her betrayal, however, and used his death to power the Tuning Forks, merging Earth-1 and Earth-2 into a netherverse shielded from Mobius. The sacrifice allowed the defenders of the multiverse to regroup and ultimately defeat Mobius, the Anti-Monitor, collapsing the infinite multiverse into a single, unified reality known as New Earth. Although New Earth streamlined the multiverse into a cohesive timeline,

28:31
traces and memories of their original multiverse lingered. The re-emergence of the multiverse began during another crisis event caused by Alexander Luther Jr., who believed the New Earth was flawed. Using the remains of Mobius's armor, he constructed a tuning fork tower to split New Earth into multiple universes in an effort to find a perfect one. His actions, though ultimately thwarted, destabilized reality.

28:57
and led to the creation of a finite multiverse of 52 parallel Earths. This restructured multiverse gave rise to a new race of monitors, fragments of Marnovu's essence, each overseeing a specific Earth. Unlike Marnovu, these monitors were not unified by a singular purpose. They developed indiviDuel personalities and often clashed over their roles. Bob, the monitor of New Earth, championed empathy and collaboration between the universes.

29:25
In contrast, Solomon, the monitor of Earth-8, pursued the violent eradication of multiversal anomalies, or people who existed outside their intended universe. Solomon's genocidal stance divided the monitors and led to internal strife within their order and without, creating enemies against their kind that included the being known as Monarch, who forced superpowered beings across the multiverse into gladiatorial matches to determine the strongest among them.

29:54
for an army that he was building to eliminate the Monitors. The conflict escalated when Solomon attempted to absorb Bob's essence to augment his own power, resulting in Bob's death and destabilizing the Monitor Collective. Amid this chaos, Monarch's actions led to the destruction of Earth 51, whose Monitor, Nyx Uotan, was banished to Prime Earth for failing to protect his universe. Stripped of his powers,

30:19
He lived as a human until regaining his memories and becoming a superhero known as Super Judge. During the supposed final crisis event, Nix became one of the last surviving Monitors, assembling an army of supermen from across the multiverse to defeat Mandrake, a corrupted Monitor. Despite their victory, Nix lamented the Monitor's failures and allowed their civilization to fade. In post-Flashpoint continuity, unbeknownst to the resurrected Marnovu and Mobius,

30:49
Their brother Alpheus had been killed by his pet dragon Barbados, who had been responsible for devouring newly forged universes too dark to exist. Barbados' abandonment of his duty led to the formation of the Dark Multiverse, champions from which were led by Barbados in a war against the Multiverse. Though Barbados and his army were defeated, the war eventually resulted in a crack within the source wall that freed Perpetua.

31:17
sought to reclaim her multiverse. Marnovu, Mobius, and a newly reformed Alphius merged to form the Ultra Monitor in a desperate bid to stop their mother, but Perpetua regained her strength, turning Mobius against her brothers by granting him the anti-life equation that allowed him to control his brothers. With help from the Green Lantern John Stewart, who you can learn more about in our Green Lantern vs Quasar duel episode, Marnovu and Alphius were freed from their

31:47
and Alpheus sacrificed his life to protect Marnovu and his allies from a universe destroying attack from Perpetua. To help stop his mother, Marnovu hid shards of Element X, the metal used to forge universes, for the forces opposing his mother to find when Perpetua and the Batman Who Laughs took over reality. You can learn more about the Batman Who Laughs and his duel against Cosmic Ghost Rider. This helped Wonder Woman defeat both, after which the hands of the Multiverse recreated.

32:16
DC's multiverse. And that's his history so far. Power-wise, the Monitor Marnovu wields immense cosmic power, including multiversal cosmic awareness that enables him to perceive and understand the infinite dimensions and realities that comprise the multiverse. His abilities include matter and energy manipulation, teleportation across universes, and control over space-time itself. He wields the dimensional superstructure of the universe.

32:44
one of seven forces of the universe, granting him partial control over the fabric of reality, though his power is diminished outside of the sixth dimension. While he's immortal, he can be destroyed, though he'll reform within the sixth dimension. His size can shift from human scale to planetary proportions, and his precognition provides glimpses into possible futures. His one weakness is that his strength and power is intrinsically tied to the stability of his domain.

33:13
should the universes of the multiverse be destroyed, his power would diminish. Well, it's too bad for him that Uatu is gonna basically destroy all of his multiverse and then just leave him powerless. That doesn't sound like something Uatu would do. You know what Uatu would do? He would fucking fall asleep while listening to that story because it was so long and so convoluted and boring. No, yeah, that was way better than Uatu's history, I'm sorry. Way better. Way more epic.

33:40
What is going to pull a harbinger and kill monitors ass just like she did? You forget that the monitor gave Harbinger a shit ton of power. So now, bro, what an idiot. What an idiot. Well, monitor is going to pull a Nick Fury and just shoot the watcher with a fucking bullet. Hey, that was before he was the one and only watcher. So, OK, well, Harbinger killed monitor before he was the ultra monitor. I don't know.

34:13
where fantasies collide and heroes clash, one podcast network rises above the rest. Prepare yourself for the ultimate showdowns in comic books, video games, movies, and anime. The Dynomic Podcast Network presents Console Combat, where video game legends brawl every Monday. Dynamic.com.

34:32
Comic Book Titans smash every Tuesday. Max Destruction, where TV and action heroes battle every Wednesday. And Sendro World, where anime champions clash every Thursday. Join us as we speculate on the matches and armed with the power of mathematical simulations, discover who will emerge victorious. Visit dynamicpodcast.com, where we settle the debate and settle the score.

35:00
Now that we got the histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not our speculation, but it's fun to imagine how this fight could play out. AJ and IK, what are the rules of our speculation? Well I should say there are no rules, other than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For the speculation...

35:27
The contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself, as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright then, let's get into it. Monitor and Watcher meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? Well, since neither of these cosmic level beings are really known for fighting, we thought we would take a different route with this duel by challenging each other on what they're known for.

35:57
observing. To that end, the Monitor and the Watcher have come to the match prepared with certain events from DC and Marvel's history in order to test their opponents' observational skills. It's a contest of watching, essentially, or since this is a podcast, listening. Yeah, how good is the other character at perceiving the events of their respective universes? In a way, we could all be considered Watchers and Monitors of Marvel and DC as consumers.

36:25
of Marvel and DC films and shows, and that we observe what happens without taking action and chronicling their events in our fanboy minds. Right, so Jonathan, as the DC monitor, will be presented with four audio events from DC's past, same for me as the Marvel Watcher. The task will be to identify the four events given to us, and the one who correctly identifies more events will be the winner of this speculation. And to add a twist to the challenge,

36:53
Each event presented to the opposing character will have some sort of commonality, be it a thematic throughline or some other connection. Both the Watchers and the Monitor's ultimate test will be to deduce this commonality in order to win. So let's get started. The Watcher presents the Monitor with an event from the DC Universe. Okay DC Monitor, here is your first event. This city is mine.

37:46
Okay, I have no idea whose voice that is. The city is mine. So a city is involved. It sounds after that there's like a dragon like screaming and it's just like attacking all these people and destroying some kind of city, I'm assuming. But at the very end, there's like this robotic cybernetic kind of sound. It can't be cyborg. This is not Justice League. There's some kind of giant monster there. Shazam Fury of the Gods had a dragon.

38:15
Aquaman had a giant carathen. The Suicide Squad had Starro. Oh, is that the thinker who's saying the city is mine? You can't just name every movie and every monster. Okay. Okay. I think I know what scene this is. Okay this is the climactic battle of the Suicide Squad when Starro is confronting the Suicide Squad telling them that the city belongs to him and all of his minions that have Starro's on their faces begin to attack the Suicide Squad.

38:44
That is correct. Yes. Oh, good gosh. This is the Star of the Conqueror scene from the Suicide Squad when Star of the Conqueror attacks Corto Maltese. And the computerized sounds that you hear at the end are Amanda Waller's crew waking up to find out that there's a freaking Kaiju that's been awakened. Gotcha. Okay. So one point for me, apparently. Yes, one point for you. Okay. So now it's the monitor's turn to present the Watcher with an event from Marvel.

39:44
This one is Easy Money. I hear a man saying no, and I hear cityscape sounds, and also a very distinctive scoring, music-wise. The event in question is when Otto Octavius realizes that the metal arms have been grafted to his body, and he escapes out into the city and attacks a taxi cab before fleeing into the night. Right, what movie is that from? That is from Spider-Man 2.

40:10
Great job, you had a way easier time with that one than I did. Well, I'm just a better observer, I guess. But now it is the DC Monitor's turn again. Here is your next event.

40:26
Come on, start moving now people, let's go! The boss wants us out of the building, so let's make it happen! Jack!

40:52
Okay, I'm hearing a car chase, it sounds like. And there's a lot of destruction and structures crumbling. Two guys are talking. It definitely sounds like Ben Affleck. Sounds like there's a lot of chaos and destruction going on and someone's driving. This has to be the opening to Batman v Superman when Bruce Wayne is racing to Wayne Enterprises during Zod's attack on Metropolis. That is correct.

41:22
from Batman vs Superman, a point to the DC monitor for that one. Two for two. Gotta say, Hans Zimmer's score during that film, still really iconic. Moving on to the second challenge for Uwatu. Here is the second event for Marvel.

41:45
Are you even pulling? Are you on my team? Just represent, pull! Alright, let's go! NNNN

41:58
Good Steve, no pressure.

42:04
Come on, Cap.

42:08
Okay, I'm hearing a lot of voices. I'm hearing people struggling. I'm hearing some whimsical music. This is another pretty easy one, I think. This is the scene when the Avengers try to lift Thor's hammer from Avengers Age of Ultron. That is correct. One more point for the Watcher. Congrats. All right, it is now the DC Monitor's turn for the next event.

42:59
Okay, that's definitely from a Superman movie. I think it's from Superman the movie. Is this the destruction of Krypton? That is correct. Yes, this is the destruction of Krypton from Superman the movie. Yeah, this is the scene where we see all of the Kryptonians sort of falling into the fiery chasms that are now what's left of Krypton. And after the planet explodes, we see the baby hell else ship zip by the camera. Correct. Yeah, good job. All right. The DC monitor gets another point. You're three for three so far.

43:28
I freaking got scared at the beginning of the clip, I'm not gonna lie. Alright, the monitor is now presenting Uatu with Marvel's third event to recall. I shall miss you, my friend.

44:08
What the fuck is that from? Okay, I hear what sounds like Professor X saying, I will miss you, my friend. And then a lot of people saying, I'm sorry. Ooh, this is a tough one. I don't immediately recognize what this is from. Maybe I'm not correct and that's not Professor X. Oh, I know what this is from. Okay, the I'm sorry suddenly makes sense now. This is from Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness when Black Bolt

44:39
erases Doctor Strange from that timeline. Right, a multiversal Doctor Strange from the multiverse, where Professor X and Black Bolt and Mr. Fantastic are all part of this council. That was a great challenge right there. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't immediately get it because I'm sure some of our listeners will, but I'm glad I pulled it off in the end. That's three points for me so far. For you, the DC Monitor, I present you with your final challenge. The only way to save the

45:10
world from ever happening. Take this.

45:36
Okay, I'm pretty sure this has to be from the flash just because someone's telling another guy to run and there's like this electrical sound. I can't pinpoint the scene though. I'm not sure who's telling him to run, I think. I want to know what the guy gives the runner when he says take this. What is that? Obviously, this has to be from a film where something just catastrophic happens and time has to be rewritten.

46:02
That's why my guess is it's the Flash, but it could also be Zack Snyder's Justice League. Why can't I recognize that voice? That frigging kills me. I feel like this is from an animated film. Is this from Justice League Dark Apocalypse War? It is not. No. Okay, well then it's gotta be from the Tomorrowverse. This has gotta be from Justice League Crisis on Infinite Earths, part one. I'm guessing. Fuck you. I feel like I could see the scene in my head.

46:32
I just have no idea what movie it's from or who's on the screen. It's just shadows really. The voice belongs to Thomas Wayne and it is from the end of Justice League the Flashpoint Paradox. When he says take this he's handing Barry Allen a note to his son Bruce Wayne. You know I should have known this I feel really stupid because of course that's what it's from. For that particular round I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul Jonathan.

47:02
I need that. Well, that's three out of four for the monitor. Let's see how Marvel's The Watcher fares with this fourth and final event that I'm hoping is the most difficult.

47:26
I'm out.

47:39
Yeah.

47:45
Okay, I hear animals attacking each other. I hear a dog getting slapped. And I think there's really only one movie that that happens in, and that would be the Hulk dog fight from the 2003 movie Hulk. You think you're better than me? I think I'm a better Watcher than you, yeah. Okay. Well, maybe not. Let's see if you pass the ultimate test, Mr. Watcher. What do all four of these events have in common?

48:14
Well, why don't you tell me first? There was the climactic battle against Starro at the end of the Suicide Squad. There was the opening to Batman v Superman with Bruce Wayne driving to Wayne Enterprises during Zod's attack. So I guess cities are being destroyed. There was Superman the movie with the destruction of Krypton. And then I guess there was the destruction of an entire universe in the Flashpoint Paradox. So the theme is destruction? That is correct. Yeah.

48:43
cosmic level events of mass destruction. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay, cool. So I guess I win ultimately. Even though I got one wrong. For the Watcher, the events that were presented to him were Doctor Octopus's awakening, you have the Avengers trying to lift Thor's hammer, you have Black Bolt destroying Doctor Strange, and you have Hulk fighting against the Hulk dogs.

49:11
This commonality is much harder for me to determine. I cannot think of a single damn thing, especially with the Avengers party kind of throwing a wrench in there. I know that two of the movies were directed by Sam Raimi. The other one was directed by Joss Whedon. The other one was directed by Ang Lee. One of the movies came out in 2003. One of the movies came out in 2004. And then you have 2015 with Age of Ultron and Dr. Strange came out in 2022, I think.

49:40
Are you Googling this shit? No. Get off Google. I'm not fucking Googling. That's all in my brain, motherfucker. I cannot think of the commonality between those. Is there, I honestly have no idea. I have no idea. So you admit that you're inferior as a watcher. No, I mean, I got all the events correct, but what's the commonality between them? Are you ready for the answer? I am ready for the answer. All films were scored by Danny Elfman. Ah, shit! Of course they were.

50:10
Yeah, you're totally right. Oh, that was a good one. That was really good. Yeah, yeah, the Spider-Man Sam Raimi franchise, the 2003 Hulk movie, Multiverse of Madness, and Avengers Age of Ultron were all scored by Danny Elfman. Although for Age of Ultron, he was one of many composers on that film. But that, though, that was a sneaky ass commonality between all the events. Well, I guess since the Watcher failed the true test of this whole matchup, the Monitor wins.

50:39
And yet it was the watcher who was able to correctly identify every event that happened. So really, the watcher wins. That doesn't matter. You have to look deeper at things. Yeah, just like how apparently you didn't look deep enough at the flashpoint paradox to remember what the fuck happened in that movie, obviously. You're the one who cheated by pulling out a direct-to-video animated film. Who does that? Uh, DC does that. A lot. They put out a lot of-

51:07
direct to video animated films. Blame them. Yeah, but I don't remember any of them. You don't remember the Flashpoint Paradox, which is one of DC's best animated projects? That's fair, that was really good. It honestly just makes you sound dumb. Like you explained everything about the plot of that movie without getting the movie.

51:28
I mean, the monitor got everything but the title of the project. So maybe the watchers dumb. Maybe the watchers tired of your shit and just shoves the monitor. Oh, oh, look, look, who's suddenly getting all confrontational. Mr. I swear not to intervene, you know, monitor. He's going to respond by shoving the watcher back, but with energy beams from his hands that just like yeet the watcher into outer space. I mean, the watcher has interfered before, like when necessary. Right. And he's all too happy.

51:58
right now to interfere with the monitor's face by rearranging it. So yeah, the watcher gets blasted back into the cosmos, but suddenly he disappears in a flash of light and he reappears behind the monitor. But now he's the size of a whole planet. And he's going to shoot down energy beams from his eyes that just disintegrate the monitor. Yeah, I mean the monitor saw this coming due to his precognition and cosmic awareness. So the monitor blocks the eye blast.

52:27
by beaming in this massive structure, this tuning fork tower between him and the Watcher's lasers before they reach him. And this tower absorbs those lasers along with all of the Watcher's energy just draining him so now he's just this giant floating husk in space. Except that when the Watcher attacked Monitor, he also telepathically read his mind and learned all of his secrets.

52:54
including his knowledge about this power draining antenna. Okay, so as the Watcher's power is being drained, he has a contingency plan. You know, he has this massive comet from the far reaches of the solar system fly in and plow right through that antenna, like a bullet through a gas tank, just unleashing the antenna's energy in like this sun-sized explosion, and the monitor dies in the blast. So the match is over. No, except that the comet actually just passes

53:23
right through the antenna because once they had enough of the watcher's energy, the antenna sent out this frequency throughout the universe that shifted it into the sixth dimension where the watcher is like nothing but an infant and the monitor can control reality. So the monitor, you know, he's aboard his ship and he simply presses a button on his console and the watcher ceases to exist. Match over. Okay, so the monitor is a cold-hearted bastard who would erase an infant? Wow.

53:51
And the Watcher looks like a big baby! I mean, the Watcher, I'm pretty sure, is powerful enough to like, you know, thrive in the sixth dimension. So like, right as the monitor is about to press that eraser button, all of a sudden time freezes, okay? And the Watcher is going to peer into a what-if universe that's called, what if the monitor was a weak, punk-ass loser? And all of a sudden the fight gets transported there.

54:19
where the Watcher just kills the monitor with a backhand slap. You know, ending the match. Sixth dimensional time freezing? That is horseshit. Why is that horseshit? Because it's the sixth dimension, like time does not even exist. I'm pretty sure it does. Why are you so confident that the Watcher can even comprehend anything he's seeing in the sixth dimension? Because he's the fucking Watcher. That's why he's pretty damn powerful. Again, horseshit.

54:48
I say the monitor is a more advanced being than the watcher. So there's no way the watcher is going to be able to peer into any other kind of reality from the sixth dimension. He's just going to get erased. Oh, we're just going to take your word for it that he's a more advanced being than the watcher? Sure. Yeah. Well, let's find out by taking this fight to the stats. Okay. We're going to go ahead and plug in their stats, run the simulations and see which one wins.

55:18
Processing results simulations complete. All right, these guys are super powerful. Definitely reflected in the stats because all their stats were almost maxed out. There were a few discrepancies. We did say that the watcher was more evasive because he's a little bit more elusive and behind the scenes than the monitor. And you know, the watcher often goes invisible. The monitor is a little bit more concrete. Right. The monitor though, we said has a lot more toys at his disposal.

55:47
He's always carrying around six dimensional technology that he uses, whereas the Watcher, he has his Citadel and some of the items stored there help him out, but largely he acts through his own power. We also said that the monitor had a greater perception than the Watcher because his cosmic awareness extends across universes and even out into the greater omniverse. Yeah, yeah, we said that the monitor essentially observes more than the Watcher. The Watcher largely relegated to

56:16
Earth and its solar system, traditionally speaking. But for everything else, including intelligence, versatility, strength, durability, they were all even. The strangest stat had to be fighting skill. We had no idea what the heck to do for that one, but we figured whatever we gave them, they would be basically even. Yeah, they've both been known to throw down very, very rarely. So yeah, fighting skill was a hard one to tabulate for them. With all that said and done though, Jonathan, who do you think is going to win this match?

56:44
I think it's going to be the monitor and our Instagram poll takers agree with me. So far. Yeah, they are giving the monitor a 54% edge over the watcher. Last time I checked the watcher was ahead in that poll. What the hell? It is kind of surprising to me that the watcher is not ahead right now considering we just got off of what if and he was a major player in that.

57:05
Well, I mean, I guess the monitor was in the recent Justice League Crisis on Infinite Earth's trilogy of films, as well as the Arrow vs Crisis on Infinite Earth's crossover event. That's true. Anyway, what does Instagram know? Let's get the final results of this match. AJ9K, the results please. Hey Yuasa. Okay, the winner between the monitor and the watcher is... The monitor. Hell yeah! It was very close.

57:34
Out of 1000 simulated matches, the monitor won 554 battles, whereas the watcher only won 446. So it's 55.4% over 44.6%. I'm not surprised. I knew the watcher was powerful, but I also figured the monitor just operated at a bigger scale. And the stats sort of reflected that. Well, I mean, if the monitor is so perceptive, how come he didn't know...

58:00
what the fucking end of the Flashpoint paradox was. No, no, no, you're comparing Mar Novo to Johnny DC. That's not a fair comparison. Yeah, I guess you're right. Johnny DC is not that great. Yeah, neither is Marvelous Joe because he couldn't find the connection between all of the different four movies. I may be observant, but I'm not smart. That's fair. Well, that does it for this duel, guys. AJ 9K, help close this out. Thanks for listening to Dynamic Duel.

58:28
Visit the show's website at dynamicduel.com and follow us on Instagram at dynamicduelpodcast. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash dynamicduel and joining a tier that works for you, or by rating and reviewing Dynamic Duel on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network, including Max Destruction, Senjo World and Console Combat.

58:56
In our next episode, we will be doing a review of the first season of Creature Commandos, which is also kicking off James Gunn's DCU. You do not want to miss it and our thoughts on it. But that is it for this episode, we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers Ken Johnson, Jon Sturowski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Mickey Mathangian, Brendan Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wasilowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Schunk, Dean Maleski.

59:25
Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Leiner, Mike Williams, and Oscar Galvez for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers.