Outsiders vs X-Force

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This is a DynaMic Network podcast.

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Hi and welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm his twin brother Johnny DC. And this episode guys, it's a big one. It's a big milestone team duel episode, which we do every 25 episodes or so. We're going to find out who would win in a fight between the outsiders and X-Force.

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The Outsiders is a badass DC group started by Batman consisting of characters like Black Lightning and Katana, and X-Force is a badass Marvel group consisting of characters like Cable and Deadpool. Yeah, they're borderline street level teams, but they also have some real powerhouses and some really cool characters. Yeah, this particular team duel was determined by our executive producers and...

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We've been building toward it for a few months now, and I'm really excited to see who's going to win between these two groups. Of course, this isn't the first team duel that we've done. We've done lots of other team duels. I think we've done like 11 of them now, including...

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Justice League vs Avengers Titans vs X-Men Justice Society vs Fantastic Four Suicide Squad vs Defenders Justice League Dark vs The Midnight Suns Arkham Asylum vs Sinister Six Young Justice vs Young Avengers The Flash's Rogues vs The Brotherhood of Mutants Doom Patrol vs Guardians of the Galaxy We did a special last Halloween, Deceased vs Marvel Zombies

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and the Legion of Doom vs. Masters of Evil. If any of those strike your fancy, definitely go check out our Team Duel episodes. In addition to this episode, because, you know, they're big ones. They're a lot of fun. A lot of work goes into them. So much work. Yeah, it's worth it, though. And we hope you guys enjoy our four hundred and first episode. Episode 400 was actually our Suicide Squad Isekai review.

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But before we get into that team duel, we're going to go over the latest comic book movie news to come out this past week, of which there was just one news item, and that was that Marvel television executive, Brad Winterbaum, has confirmed that Nova will be a television series. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent duel simulator, AJ9K, has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up.

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Why hello there, do you want even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic Duel community on Patreon, where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic two-oh tier gives you access to our Discord chat server. The fantastic four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly,

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The DynaMic Podcast Network tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamicduel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Be sure to tune into the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network this week.

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including Max Destruction, which pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other. This week, hosts Scotty and Gilly are pitting Neo from The Matrix against Gabriel Yulaw from The One. On the Senjou World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga characters. This Thursday, Zach will be finding out who'd win between Toji Fushiguro from Jujutsu Kaisen and Rock Lee from Naruto. On the Console Combat podcast,

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hosts John and Dean find out who would win in fights between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode, they determined who would win between Craig Boone from Fallout and Sniper Wolf from Metal Gear. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all the shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network. But with that out of the way, quick, to the no prize! A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans.

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Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award that we posted on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week we asked, out of the 400 episodes we've done, what has been your favorite episode of Dynamic Duel so far, and why? And I thought we would get a ton of answers. We got three. Which is disappointing, but you know, I think we've asked this question a few times already, so it makes sense that we would get diminishing returns on it.

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We got two honorable mentions and a no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Miggy Matanguihan, who said, Hey, what's up, guys? This is Miggy. And my favorite episode of your guys's is the Titans versus X-Men team duel. It just came out at a time when I had finished catching up on all of your backlog and I was listening to episodes weekly. And the Titans are like my favorite team and some of my favorite characters. So it was just kind of that sweet spot.

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Also the Batman review with the Spies Brothers, the Batman movie with the Spies Brothers, the 60s one, hilarious. Thanks guys. Yes, we have definitely asked this question before and Mickey has responded with those same answers. But just hearing his choices again reminds me of how much fun I have doing this podcast. It makes me feel like we peaked years ago on this show. Totally. His answers have not changed. That's true. We keep putting out new episodes, but apparently they're not getting any better than those

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I mean it is the Titans and X-Men. Well, maybe the X-Force episode will be better. We'll see. Yeah, cause Outsiders is kind of Titans adjacent and X-Force is X-Men adjacent. We'll see. No pressure, no pressure. Thanks, Miggy, for your answer. Our next honorable mention goes to Travis Herndon, who said. What's up, DynamaDews? Travis here, shout out to my other twins. So my answer would have to be your video on Poison Ivy versus Emma Frost's battle.

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That one to me was definitely the funniest from you guys' back and forth. You know how the fight was slowly going from this actual fight to this hot and steamy, sexy time and you guys had to be stopping yourselves over and over again. So that had to be my pick, the Poison Ivy vs Emma Frost. Yeah, that's embarrassing. Really the only quasi-sexy thing that I remember from that duel is when Poison Ivy cracked Emma Frost's diamond form.

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And Jonathan said that the crack was the crack of the ass. Ridiculous. But yeah, Jonathan does that type of shit all the time when it comes to the femme fatale duels and he's working on it. He's trying to do better. I literally cannot deny it because our patrons have access to our blooper reels from when we did like Catwoman versus Hellcat. I'm not proud of it, but I am amused by it. Great answer, Travis. But the winner of this week's snow prize is.

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Kat Stevenson who said, Hi guys, it's Kat again. And recently I went to the Seattle Museum of Pop Culture where I got to see the Batman and Robin suit. Seeing the Bat nipples in real life made me realize that my favorite episode is your Batman and Robin review. That movie is absolutely bat shit crazy. And just getting to listen to you guys rant about a horrible movie is amazing. I love that episode and I love you guys.

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Thank you so much. Thanks, Kat. Yeah, this episode got the win largely because I was just really surprised by the answer. I've never heard this before. Actually, I remember when we did that review of Batman and Robin, we got some flack from some listeners who just knew the movie was bad and didn't want to hear a review on it. I guess not recognizing that, you know, we're trying to review all the Marvel and DC movies whether they're new or old. Good or bad. Right. And holy cow, Batman and Robin.

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is bad. Even revealing it, I'm like, this review is way worse than I even remembered it being. I'm glad someone liked the review because I sure did not enjoy writing it. But the best part about that whole experience was probably recording our review and just cracking up. So yeah, brought back some good memories. Thanks, Kat Stevenson. Congrats on winning this week's No Prize. If you the listener want a shot at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. And now that that's done.

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On to the news!

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This past week, Brad Winterbaum, who is the Marvel Studios Head of Streaming, Television, and Animation, guested on a podcast called the Phase Zero Podcast. And on the show, Winterbaum confirmed that Nova is getting a Disney Plus television series. Now, I think a lot of us have assumed that for quite a while or we've known that. But what was interesting about this reveal that Nova is going to be a television show is that Brad Winterbaum described the series as having shades of

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both Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica, which both of those shows are long running fan-loved sci-fi franchises. So this can only mean good things for a Nova series. Actually, you know what? I thought the most interesting thing about that was, of course, Marvel would be doing a Nova series after the Green Lantern series was greenlit by Warner Brothers. Because why wouldn't they? Because they're a bunch of copiers. I'm sorry. The Green Lantern series has been described as true detective in space.

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whereas the Nova series is being described as Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica. Now which one of those other television show comparisons seems more appropriate for an intergalactic, spacefaring, peacekeeping core out in the galaxy? You tell me. True Detective or Star Trek? Now when you say appropriate, do you mean like interesting? Because True Detective! I mean both. True Detective. Dude, Star Trek?

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Meets Battlestar Galactica. It's a big done before. It's called Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica. True Detection has been done before. But now what? I have space, bro. OK, come on. Oh, let's see Star Trek in space. I wonder what that's like. Fucking awesome. That's what it's like. Now, Brad Winterbaum said that it's going to be an ensemble piece. So it looks like the series is not just going to focus on one Nova like Richard Ryder or maybe Sam Alexander.

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It's going to focus on the entire Nova Corps and perhaps what happens to them after Zandar is destroyed. I would prefer the Nova Corps and the Gromund Day to visit Earth, recruit Richard Ryder, and then restart the Nova Corps. I think that'd be a great premise. But really the MCU is focusing more on the Nova Corps itself, the entire team, as opposed to one indiviDuel Corps member. We saw in the first Guardians of the Galaxy film where we were introduced to the Corps on Zandar, how the Nova Corps were more like a...

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police force than a group of superheroes, you know, they didn't fly around on their own. They flew around in Nova Corps spaceships. And the way the Nova Force manifested was like an energy force field linked between their ships and stuff like that. It was really fascinating. And it'll be really interesting to see where they take that concept with this Nova Corps series, especially considering that Xandar has been destroyed. I'm actually not surprised they're making it an ensemble considering some of the cast members they've had.

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in the Nova Corps and past movies like John C. Reilly and Glenn Close. You know, if you could get those actors to come back, maybe even for like a brief appearance, that'd be pretty cool. But also, I'm not surprised that it's an ensemble because a lead character named Dick Ryder is not for Disney+. You are the first person to ever make that joke. I mean, I try. Now, Richard Ryder is a great character. If you guys want to learn more about him, definitely check out our Duel episode between him and

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Hal Jordan Green Lantern. Actually, speaking of Green Lantern, rumors are a swirling about who they are going to cast as Hal Jordan. The list includes Josh Brolin, Thanos himself, Matthew McConaughey, Ewan McGregor, Chris Pine, and Timothy Olyphant. And I gotta say, that's a solid lineup. I'd be happy with any one of those. Yeah, I'd be happy with any of those except for Josh Brolin, I think. He just doesn't feel like Hal Jordan to me.

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But it seems like they're going with an older actor for Hal Jordan and a younger actor for Jon Stewart. Yeah, yeah, that's their plan, allegedly. But speaking of Nova and Green Lantern, that brings us to our question of the week.

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Who would you cast as Richard Ryder in the Nova series, and Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart in the Green Lantern series? Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message can be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer, and award that person a dynamic duel no prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before...

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September 14th.

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Well that does it for all the news for this episode, so let's go ahead and get into our main event where we find out who'd win in a fight between DC's The Outsiders and Marvel's X-Force.

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Alright, Outsiders vs X-Force. These are two badass teams that I think are largely well known for their respective fan bases. X-Force is definitely well known even amongst non-comic book readers because the team made a cameo appearance on the Deadpool 2 movie. Yeah, and the Outsiders had an entire season dedicated to them in the Young Justice animated series from DC. Which is not the same level of popularity as a theatrical release.

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Nobody watches this cartoon that you're talking about. The only people that would know who the outsiders are are actual DC comic book fans, I think. Bitch, you don't know people's lives? Show me the numbers. Prove me wrong. Prove yourself right. The burden on proof is on you, I think. I'm just gonna say that it is. You have to prove me wrong. That's how it works. We'll tell everybody out there who are not quite familiar with who the outsiders are their basic gist.

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The idea of the outsiders is that they can do things and go places that the Justice League cannot. And the X-Force are kind of exactly the same when it comes to the X-Men. Like the X-Force go out and do things outside of the scope of your standard X-Men mission. You know, they're often considered outlaws for their more extreme, brutal methods. You know, they're a product of the extreme 80s and 90s. They're also a product of the outsiders, because the outsiders can first...

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and they did all that stuff first. How do you know that the Outsiders came first? Because the X-Force came out in like the early 90s, I'm pretty sure, and the Outsiders were around before Crysis. Well X-Force came out in 1991. Okay, yeah, so I'm right. Again it doesn't matter who came out first, it matters who did it better. And we're going to find out which team is better in this episode, but to explain the methodology behind our team duels, let's go to our sentient duel simulator Alfred Jarvis 9000.

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Tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our team duel matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the two teams is by running 1,000 Monte Carlo simulations between every character on each team using their statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle.

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The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid, from which the DC characters' statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception, in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 49,000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character on both teams. The team with the higher average win rate is declared the victor, as they have a higher probability to win any given battle.

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In an equitable pairing, neither team should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. Thanks, Adrian, I'm K.

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Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down each team's histories and rosters before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the thousands of simulations we run would play out beat for beat. And it's my turn to go first with the Marvel team's backstory, so let me go ahead and tell you all about X-Force. The origins of the X-Force team are actually found within another group known as the New Mutants, a team of young heroes formed by Professor X when he mistakenly believed his X-Men had perished.

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Though the Professor was reluctant to form a new team, Xavier decided that he could still mentor young mutants in the use of their powers without sending them into combat. However, combat found the young team and the new mutants were in near constant struggles against outside enemies and their own inner demons despite Professor X's wishes. You can learn more about Professor X and his duel against the Chief and more about the X-Men in their team duel against the Titans.

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Eventually, the time traveling cyborg mutant soldier named Cable took charge of the new mutants and restructured it into a strike team that would take a more proactive approach against threats against mutant kind. More specifically, against threats posed by Cable's clone named Strife, who had formed a terrorist mutant group called the Mutant Liberation Front. Cable took the young heroes under his wing, radicalizing them in his more extreme methods, which prompted several members to leave.

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including Warlock, Wolfsbane, Richter, and Sunspot, leaving only Cannonball and Boom Boom left on the team. This resulted in Cable recruiting new members, Warpath, Shatterstar, Feral, and Domino. Together they formed a new group that Cable monocled X-Force, a group existing between Professor X's pacifist ideals and Magneto's hostile aggression. The team fought against Genesis, a disciple of Apocalypse who hired their mercenary Deadpool to attack X-Force.

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They also battled Strife's Mutant Liberation Front, Juggernaut and Black Tom Cassidy, the Immortal Mutant Externals, the Parasitic Phalanx Aliens, and even the International Espionage Organization SHIELD after getting on their radar for their brutal, uncompromising methods. In their adventures, they brought on new recruits including Siren, Caliban, Meltdown, Bedlam, and Mirage. When Strife framed Cable for an assassination attempt on Professor X,

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X-Force found themselves without a mentor for a time. They were taken under the guidance of the mutant British spy, Pete Wisdom, but they disbanded not long after. Eventually the cast of a mutant reality TV show took the name X-Force for their group, prompting the original team to confront them and they changed their name to X-Statics. Later the Scarlet Witch used her reality warping powers during a psychotic break to remove most of the world's mutant abilities in an event known as M-Day.

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When Earth's first new mutant was born, groups around the world raced to find her, either seeking to protect, experiment on, or destroy her. As part of the search, Cyclops formed a strike force within the X-Men team to find the child and protect her from all threats, creating a new iteration of X-Force, this time led by Wolverine and consisting of X-23, Warpath, Caliban, and Hepzibah. Ultimately, it was Cable acting on his own,

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who was able to secure the child, naming her Hope Summers and taking her into the future to protect her. Cyclops retained X-Force as a secret black ops team tasked with eliminating potential threats to mutant kind, including William Stryker and his purifiers, and Mr. Sinister and his marauders. Archangel joined the team, and the group operated out of his area estate in the Colorado Rocky Mountains. They were also joined by Domino and Deadpool when they were sent to the future to help

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After saving the two and returning to the present, the team relocated to an island base off the coast of San Francisco. There, X-Force fought against the mutant Succubus Selene and her undead army, and later Bastion and his battalion of Nimrod Sentinels. Eventually, Cyclops determined the strike force was no longer necessary, and he had X-Force disbanded. However, Wolverine kept it going in secret, bringing aboard Psylocke and Phantom X to the team.

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They battled the resurrected Apocalypse and his four horsemen, and the cybernetic Reavers, during which the zombie cyborg soldier Deathlock joined. They also opposed the evil psychic entity known as the Shadow King, before Wolverine revealed the group's existence to the X-Men, and the X-Force disbanded once again. Is Deathlock a mutant? He's not, but technically neither is Deadpool. He's a mutate.

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So the X-Force team is not just mutants exclusively, like Shatterstar is not a mutant. Gotcha. He's an alien. Meanwhile, Cable and Hope returned to the present, where Cable's techno-organic virus was purged from his system. With his psychic powers fully unleashed, Cable began receiving precognitive visions of the future, and he recruited a new X-Force team to battle the threats that he foresaw, including new members Hope, Colossus, and Forge. Together, they stopped numerous threats such as a public transmode virus infection,

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and an alien invasion. However, since the team's actions were preemptive, X-Force was branded as terrorists and got on the radar of the Avengers and had to fight the team to continue their work. Simultaneously, the Black Ops X-Force team, now known as the Uncanny X-Force, had continued on, now led by Psylocke, and included members such as Storm, Bishop, Spiral, and Puck. One of Cable's premonitions led Hope to perceive the Uncanny team as a threat, and the two X-Forces fought.

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They eventually called a truce, however, and Psylocke's team disbanded. Eventually, Cable, still beset by his premonitions, went after the mercenary Deadpool, who at the time was being tested by the Time Variance Authority as a potential agent. Cable stole a time harness in an attempt to stop Deadpool from causing a disaster and to fix his mind from the premonitions. In the process, the time harness merged Cable with various incarnations of himself across the time stream, and Cable returned to the present.

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back with his techno-organic virus, and without his future premonitions. No longer tied to a mission, the X-Force team disbanded. When Professor X, Magneto, and other Mutant leaders developed their own nation on the mutant island of Krakoa, they found themselves still targeted by foreign threats and decided to form a Krakoan intelligence agency, a new special operations squad named X-Force. You can learn more about Krakoa in his Duel episode against Danny the Street.

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This new team was headed by Beast and included Sage, Wolverine, Domino, Colossus, and Kid Omega, with special equipment provided for their missions by Forge. Together, they executed missions to protect Krakoa's national interests, including defending against the anti-Krakoan organization known as Orcus. And that's their backstory up until recently. For the 7-person X-Force roster I'll be going with for this team duel,

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because all of our team duels include 7 person rosters. I wanted to pull from across the team's long and varied history. First off, I chose the founder of X-Force and its frequent leader, Cable, who is a physical and psychic powerhouse. I'm also going with one of the first recruits of the original team, a founding member, and one of the group's most frequent members, Domino, my good luck wildcard. The strongman Warpath is my third member, who is also an original member of X-Force.

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The latter two that I just mentioned were also members of the X-Force Special Ops team, which is one of my personal favorite incarnations of the group and where I pulled from the remaining four members. This includes Deadpool, who initially started out as a mercenary adversary for the team but later joined them, Archangel, who I consider my aerial support as one of the only flyers on the group, Psylocke, another psychic threat, and lastly X23, who in the comic books is now going by the code name Talon.

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which is a name I really like for her, and that's what I'll be calling her here instead of X23. Talon not only was a member of the Special Ops Squad, but she's also serving as a stand-in of sorts for her father, and I put father in quotes, Wolverine, and Wolverine has led several versions of X-Force, but I already used him in the Titans versus X-Men duel. So that's my roster. To reiterate, the seven-member X-Force team that I'm going with for this duel is Cable,

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Psylocke, Archangel, Warpath, and X23, now known as Talon. And you can learn all about their indiviDuel histories in their respective Duel episodes. Basically, this team is as badass as badass gets though. It is pretty badass. Actually, there are a lot of tie-ins in their backstory that reminded me a lot of the Outsiders backstory. The teams are maybe a little bit more similar than I would have even thought. But let me get into the Outsiders backstory. When Lucius Fox

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a board member of Wayne Enterprises, was kidnapped during a business trip in the fictional European country of Markovia during the coup of the country's monarchy, Batman insisted the Justice League intervene, though he was rejected on the grounds that the League's presence would be seen as an involvement in a political conflict. Enraged, Batman quit the League and enlisted the help of Black Lightning to rescue Lucius abroad. While posing as Lucius's brother,

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Black Lightning developed a contact within the Markovian revolutionaries named General Carnes, who worked with the villain Baron Bedlam to kill King Victor Markov and take over the country. Carnes was killed, however, by the sword-wielding Kitana, who blamed him for selling weapons that killed her family. While Black Lightning was blamed and imprisoned for the death of Carnes, Batman encountered Halo, an amnesiac young woman seemingly a victim of the war in Markovia that possessed energy powers.

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and Markovia's chief royal scientist, Dr. Helga Jace, was imbuing the country's prince, Bran Markov, with geokinetic powers in order to protect the crown. Metamorpho, an elemental shapeshifter, was also in Markovia at the time, seeking help from Dr. Jace to cure him of his powers. After Prince Bryan, aka Geoforce, was shot and left for dead, Batman, Halo, and Metamorpho were all captured and imprisoned, though Katana reappeared and helped rescue the heroes from

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When GeoForce recovered, the heroes all managed to work together to overthrow Baron Bedlam, and rescue Lucius Fox to boot. Impressed by their abilities and cooperation, Batman convinced all of the heroes to join him in Gotham City to train as a new, secret superteam capable of covert missions that the Justice League were incapable of performing. When Metamorpho wondered aloud if a group of outsiders like them could really be a team, it was GeoForce that determined outsiders should be the team name.

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Batman led the Outsiders in numerous missions against villains such as Agent Orange, Meltdown, and Cryonic Man. They clashed with the Teen Titans, fought alongside the Justice League, and dealt with personal struggles, including Kitana's battle against the Yakuza, the betrayal and death of Geoforce's sister Terra, Halo's abduction by the extradimensional light beings known as Articles, and the kidnapping of Sapphire Stag, metamorphosed fiancee, on their wedding day.

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After a space mission to stop the Cobra Cult from taking over America, the outsiders traveled to the subterranean kingdom known as Abyssa, where Kitana's friend Emily Briggs discovered her royal heritage and powers, taking on the codename Looker, and becoming the latest member to join the team. Eventually, Baron Bedlam returned to Markovia and kidnapped Princess Ilona, the fiancée of King Gregor Markov, Geoforce's older brother.

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Batman withheld this information from the team in the hopes that Geoforce would remain in Gotham, and when the team found out, Batman was ultimately forced off the team. After receiving funding from the Kingdom of Markovia, the Outsiders relocated from Gotham to Los Angeles, establishing their secret headquarters in an ocean research lab. After several adventures and a number of scandals, the Outsiders reunited with Batman to take on Eclipso.

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after which they teamed up with Infinity Inc. after PsychoPirate attempted to pose as Baron Bedlam in Takeover Markovia. You can learn more about Eclipso and PsychoPirate in their respective duels against Malekith and Mastermind. Due to the team's continual involvement in international affairs, particularly in Markovia, the US government began hunting the outsiders as enemies. It was during this time that Dr. Helga Jace also betrayed the team, revealed to be a sleeper agent of the robotic manhunters.

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brainwashed Metamorpho into attacking the team, though he was able to eventually overcome her control and attacked her instead, resulting in both his and Dr. Jace's death. After Looker lost her powers, and Halo went into a coma after battling the Manhunters, and with the US government still after them, the Outsiders decided to disband. The team members later rejoined for the christening of Geoforce's nephew, Prince Gregor II,

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and were forced to team up again to defend the country from an army of vampires, which killed an entire village and placed the blame on the Outsiders, making them international fugitives. During this time, the Outsiders took on three new members, the Sorcerer Faust, the Exosuit-Wearing Technocrat, the Kryptonian Superman clone Eradicator, and a man-beared thing named Wild. Ha ha ha. After defeating the vampires in the Kingdom of Abyssah,

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The Outsiders' names were cleared of wrongdoing, and after some infighting, the teams split into two factions, one led by Eradicator in Los Angeles and the other led by Katana in New York. Eradicator's team clashed with the Feiron Empire, resulting in widespread destruction and internal conflicts exacerbated by media distrust and police intervention. The teams eventually reunited after dealing with betrayal from Faust and Wild, who they fought against in a hellish dimension.

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Dr. Light and a clone of Terra later joined the team, though it eventually disbanded. Following the deaths of several Titans at the hands of a mysterious android named Indigo, the Titans team disbanded, leading Arsenal and Nightwing to form a new incarnation of the Outsiders with a metamorpho-revenant named Shift, an Amazon named Grace, Black Lightning's daughter Thunder, the daughter of Green Lantern Ellen Scott, Jade, and the android Indigo.

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Sponsored by Wayne Enterprises and operating from a Brooklyn bomb shelter, the team took a proactive approach to crime fighting by hunting known criminals. After defeating the likes of the Joker and Brother Blood, Huntress briefly joined the team along with Black Lightning and Captain Marvel Jr. Eventually, Indigo was revealed to be a traitor and was actually Brainiac 8, leading to the Outsiders and Titans teaming up to defeat her. Kitana eventually joined the new team.

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proving invaluable when her Soul Sword was able to absorb and imprison the demon Sabacc. After Black Lightning was framed for murder, Nightwing and Red Hood led a failed breakout from Iron Heights that resulted in numerous deaths. The team faked their own deaths and continued operating covertly with a new roster funded by Green Arrow that now included Captain Boomerang, though their existence was later exposed by the villainous Dr. Sivana, and the team was captured by the government organization Checkmate.

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who enlisted them as covert operatives. When one mission went awry, the team ended up being captured and tortured in North Korea, forcing Batman to intervene. Upon their rescue, Nightwing stepped down as team leader and put Batman back in charge of the outsiders. Batman's new roster included Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Catwoman, the Batgirl Cassandra Kane, and Green Arrow, with Geoforce and Looker joining the ever-shifting roster later on as well.

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When Batman seemingly died, in his will he ordered Alfred Pennyworth to assemble a new team of outsiders consisting of Black Lightning, Creeper, Geoforce, Halo, Kitana, Metamorpho, and Owlman, who together worked to stop immortals known as the Insiders from destroying the planet. After the Flashpoint reset of DC's continuity,

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It was revealed that Batman put together a secret team consisting of Black Lightning, Metamorpho, Geoforce Kitana, and Halo to investigate a mystery concerning specific metals and their ties to the existence of metahumans, though Black Lightning later formed his own Outsiders team consisting of Kitana, Cassandra Cain, and the new hero, Signal, Gotham City's daytime protector. Now, for my Outsiders roster, each member of which you can learn more about in their respective Duel episodes,

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I will be going with the original members of Black Lightning, Katana, Metamorpho, Geoforce, and Halo as each of them have had recurring memberships on the team throughout its many incarnations. Noticeably absent on this roster will be Batman, which seems strange considering oftentimes the Outsiders comic is titled Batman and the Outsiders, but it was for that very reason that to me he felt more like a benefactor of the group, an outsider to the Outsiders as it were.

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And since to me Batman is more of a Justice Leagueer, the executive producers and I didn't have too many qualms about leaving Kim off the team since he has already been a part of one of our team duels. Replacing Kim will be Cassandra Cain, aka Batgirl, or Orphan, or Black Bat, who's been a member of the team's more recent incarnations. And lastly, since I didn't have room to include Roy Harper, aka Arsenal, in our Titans vs X-Men team duel, I knew I wanted to make sure he was on the Outsiders,

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since he was a founder of a prominent incarnation of the Super Team. So that's Black Lightning, Kitana, Metamorpho, Geoforce, Halo, Black Bat, and Arsenal. It's really interesting how many similarities these teams have, including the fact that we're substituting some of the key members of these respective teams with their young female proteges, including Black Bat substituting in for Batman and Talon X-23 substituting in for Wolverine.

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Yeah, I also thought it was interesting that they both had like split versions of the teams that like battled each other for a bit. Yeah, it's really strange when all these things start aligning that you didn't expect to. You find out that it's an even better idea than anybody even knew. It's wild when, you know, Marvel essentially just copies DC. They find all the different ways in which that's the case. There are clearly some things that happened in the outsiders team after they happened to X-Force. So I don't want to hear it.

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Where fantasies collide and heroes clash, one podcast network rises above the rest. Prepare yourself for the ultimate showdowns in comic books, video games, movies, and anime. The DynaMic Podcast Network presents Console Combat, where video game legends brawl every Monday.

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Comic Book Titans smash every Tuesday, Max Destruction, where TV and action heroes battle every Wednesday, and Sendro World, where anime champions clash every Thursday. Join us as we speculate on the matches and armed with the power of mathematical simulations, discover who will emerge victorious. Visit dynamicpodcast.com where we settle the debate and settle the score.

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But now that we got the team's histories and rosters out of the way, let's speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how the fight could play out. AG and IK, what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other than the teams have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out is that the other side is a threat that needs to be eliminated.

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For the speculation, the groups will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a non-descript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself, as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The teams must earn victory on their own merit. Alright then, let's get into it. The Outsiders and X-Force meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? Actually, Deadpool is going to start off by signaling, time out! He's going to be like, time out, time out! And he's going to speak directly to our listeners, and he's going to be like...

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You better get your white pants on nerds, it's gonna get good. And he was like, alright time in, we can commence with the fighting now. Okay, before he even finishes that last sentence though, Arsenal's just gonna shoot him right in the head with an arrow. So Deadpool is knocked out and he's gonna fall straight to the ground. Alright, okay that's fine. Archangel is gonna spread his metal wings and he's gonna take into the sky and just rain down a shower of razor feathers that's gonna slice into the entire Outsiders team.

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and poison them with a neurotoxin that paralyzes them. Ah, okay. Uh, but Metamorpho, he's gonna stretch his hands up and he's gonna transform his hands into a metal shield that protects the outsiders from those feathers. Okay, so the feathers stick into Metamorpho's shield, which is his hand, so the metal feathers are still gonna poison him and seep into his system. Well, no, because Metamorpho, he's actually immune to poisons due to his, you know,

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composition and he could reproduce the elemental makeup of whatever he comes into contact with so in fact he's gonna reproduce that neurotoxin in his body and become a poisonous cloud that spreads across the X-Force team paralyzing them. Okay I'm gonna say that before Metamorphro can even spread himself out over the X-Force team Cable's gonna reach out with his telekinesis to grab this poison cloud and dissipate him into the sky.

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So Metamorpho, he's like in the upper atmosphere now and he's gonna have to take some time to reconstitute himself. Meanwhile, Talon, X23, she's gonna scramble across the battlefield over to Katana and she's gonna handspring kick her with her foot claws, just slashing her across the chest. No, because like in one smooth fluid motion, Katana is gonna unsheath her sword and just expertly deflect Talon's foot claws and then she's gonna...

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transfer that momentum from her defensive move into like a counter strike that is going to slash Talon across her back. Okay Talon's in pain but she's used to pain okay and without missing a beat she's gonna continue her claw fight against Katana's. Really I assume neither of their blades would break against each other considering Talon's blades are adamantium and Katana's blade is magic. Yeah her sword is unbreakable and it could basically cut through anything.

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I'm guessing you're going to say not adamantium. So yeah, Talon and Katana, they're going to get it. Meanwhile, Geoforce, he's going to use his Geokinesis to rip the ground up into like a series of boulders. And he's going to hurl those at Warpath, increasing their gravity to just bury him. Well, no matter how heavy these boulders are, they're still made out of earth, right? And Warpath is super durable and strong. So he's just going to punch his way out from underneath these boulders. And then he's going to pick one of them up.

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and curl it over at Black Lightning to squashing him. OK, force field. You know, Black Lightning throws up his force field, which blocks against, you know, metal and energy projectiles. So that does literally nothing to. No, no, no. Boulder's not made out of metal. It's made out of like earth, like silicon, right? There's enough metallic elements in the boulder for it to be deflected. OK. Anyway, Domino is going to run over to Deadpool and yank Arsenal's arrow out of his brain.

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So Deadpool starts coming to and he's like back from the dead, just like Marvel Jesus. And Domino takes Arsenal's arrow and she's going to hurl it like a dart right at Black Bat. And the arrow is going to be aided by Domino's luck powers. So it's just going to bullseye Black Bat right in the face. Well, no, because Black Bat, she could just catch that arrow mid air because she has her kinesthetic intuition ability. She could read what Domino's doing and going to. No, no, no.

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Luck powers supersede intuition. Okay, so even though Black Bat tries to catch the arrow, her bad luck is gonna lead to the arrow just sticking right into her hand. Those luck powers are the lamest thing. I hate it, but sure, okay. Black Bat, you know, her hand gets pierced, but she's gonna break the arrow off and, you know, has a hand injury now, but she could roll with it. Meanwhile, Halo, she's gonna turn the color indigo and she's gonna put Deadpool.

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into a energy field, a tractor beam, and she's just gonna hurl him toward the horizon, just away from the battlefield. Are you gonna let him do anything during this match? I think, in fact, he actually yells those exact words as he disappears from view. He's gonna be like, are you gonna let me do anything, Johnny DC, you cock knocker? Nope. Meanwhile, Psylocke, using her stealth, she's gonna sneak up behind Geoforce, and she's gonna plunge her psychic knife right into the back of his head.

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stunning him. Okay, but Geoforce, he's not going to be stunned for long because her hand gets knocked away from Geoforce's head with a boxing glove arrow from Arsenal's quiver, and he's going to follow that up by firing two cryo arrows like in quick succession at her feet, trapping her in place. Big deal. She's going to break out of the ice by shattering it with her telekinesis, and then she's going to hurl a telepathic blade at Arsenal, and you know, he's going to try to

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because that's what he does, but he's not going to know that her blade is psychic energy. And so he's not going to be able to do anything about it. And the psychic blade hits him and he gets mentally knocked out. Meanwhile, Deadpool, he's going to come back onto the scene with Archangel who went to go get him. And Deadpool is writing Archangel kind of like Sebastian at the end of the never ending story. He's going to be like, Falcor is wonderful. And he leaps off of Archangel's back.

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You know, he's going to do a superhero landing next to Black Bat, and he's going to pull out his swords and be like, Hello, Black Bat, I'm White Wade Wilson. Is your power cultural appropriation? Dude, he doesn't even know what race she is. It doesn't matter. OK. I'm not going to lie. Like Deadpool's body language is probably super challenging for Black Bat to read. I imagine he's pretty unpredictable. So she's disoriented.

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And because of that, she's going to throw down a pellet with knockout gas that just puts him to sleep. All right. Once again, before he gets to do anything, you're trying to take him down. So Deadpool falls asleep. And as he's dozing off, he's probably going to be like, don't hurt me, Liam Neeson or something. Well, by this point, Metamorpho has reconstituted and, you know, seeing Katana and Talon battling.

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He's gonna turn the lower half of his body into a straight jacket that just wraps around Talon, while the upper half of his body is still in his standard form, except for his hands. He's gonna turn those into mallets and he's just gonna pummel Talon mercilessly. Okay, so Talon is in a straight jacket and getting beat up, but a straight jacket's not gonna cover her legs. So while Metamorpho thinks he has her restrained, she's just gonna kick her leg up and slice off both of his hammer hands.

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with her foot claws and then she escapes the straitjacket. Meanwhile, Cable is gonna pull out his BFG. You know what that stands for? Big Friendly Giant. Stands for Big Fucking Gun, man. It's a giant energy rifle and Cable's gonna use it to shoot a hail of energy rounds at GeoForce, just perforating the guy. Okay, well I mean, how well does a BFG stand up against a BFV? A big fucking volcano.

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That's what's gonna erupt from the ground around Geoforce, blocking Cable's blasts. And Geoforce, he's in the center of this, like 30 foot tall mountain that shoots him into the sky as it erupts. And from the air, Geoforce is gonna bombard Cable with beams of magma. So Geoforce creates a volcano that shoots him up into the air? Yeah. That's pretty cool. But if it's only 30 feet tall, that sounds more like a little baby volcano than a big fucking volcano.

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Whatever. But Cable's gonna throw up a telekinetic shield to block the magma and you know, the sky's Archangel's domain So that was stupid like Geo Force is focused on burning up Cable when all of a sudden he gets sliced in half by Archangel's metal wings and Geo Force is the first one out in this match. What? No, I thought he was gonna be like my last one He's like my most powerful guy Okay. Well, I do have one question for you

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Do you know what happens to an angel when it's struck by lightning? It croaks. The same thing that happens to everything else. Cause that's exactly what's gonna happen to Archangel. Black Lightning, you know, he saw what happened to Geoforce. And since Archangel's wings are made of metal, he's like a great conductor of electricity. So Black Lightning channels this massive lightning bolt that just completely fries Archangel to a crisp in the sky. So Archangel is out as well. All right, okay.

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Well, I'm going to say that the thunder from Black Lightning's lightning bolt is going to wake up Deadpool and Arsenal, who was, you know, knocked out by Psylocke. And Deadpool sits up and he's going to be like, where did that little baby volcano come from? Oh, my God. Are those twin gold plated desert eagles you're carrying? And he's going to point at Arsenal's guns and Arsenal's going to look down at his holster and he's going to be like, uh, no.

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Well, Deadpool's like, I need them for my collection. And he's going to teleport over to Arsenal and right away slice off his gun holster with his swords and knock the guns up into the air. And Deadpool's going to catch him and just pump Arsenal full of lead. And then Deadpool's going to be like, wait, these aren't gold. Okay. Well, as Deadpool comes to that realization, the guns actually get sliced in half, followed up by his own decapitation, all thanks to Katana's soul taker sword. So

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Deadpool's out of the match. Fine. Meanwhile, Metamorpho, who just regrew his hands, he hears a beeping sound. And he realizes that a sticky explosive mine has been thrown onto his back. And he's going to spin around and see Domino is the one who threw the mine. And with a smile, she's going to shoot right through Metamorpho, hitting the explosive that stuck to his back in this unbelievably lucky shot.

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and the mine is gonna detonate with a sizable explosion that just sends chunks of metamorpho scattered across the battlefield. All right. So, Halo sees this and goes on the offensive against Domino. She turns yellow and flashes at Domino, blinding her, which I believe negates Domino's luck powers since they depend on her vision, right? Right. So, bad luck for Domino, Halo then turns red and just beams at

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giant hole right through Domino's torso, taking her out of the match. Good one. That was good. Well, Warpath saw what Halo did, and he just throws his vibranium knives like two tomahawks right at Halo and the knives impale her and take her out of this match, too. Yeah, no, the Halo Warpath threw his knives at just dissipated into blue light when the blades went through her because there was a hologram created by Halo. And that's when Black Bat

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She's going to swoop in and stealthily land on Warpath's shoulders. And before he could do anything, she's going to be striking nerve points across his body in rapid succession, just paralyzing Kim and making him useless for the rest of the match. OK, well, Psylocke sees this and she jumps in and fights Black Bat, you know, ninja versus ninja. And like maybe Black Bat gets a few good hits in there. But suddenly.

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Black Bat realizes she can't read Psylocke's moves anymore because her mind is all fuzzy. And that's because Psylocke telepathically clouds her brain. And then she deals her coup de grace with a telekinetic sword right through Black Bat's torso. So Black Bat's gone. And you know what? I'm not even angry. Black Bat went out with honor, but not by Psylocke. Before Psylocke could deal the final blow, Katana's Soul Sword warned her of Black Bat's imminent death.

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And so Katana, she moved really quick over to Black Bat and made sure that she trapped Cassandra's soul and her sword by delivering that killing blow. And that's going to give Katana not only Black Bat's kinesthetic intuition, but also her martial arts mastery and knowledge of Psylocke's psychic powers. And since Katana's sword can block things that are immaterial, like psychic blades, the two are just going to clash and sword on sword action. But ultimately, with Black Bat's aid,

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Katana's gonna come on top and she's just gonna impale Psylocke with her sword and steal her soul as well. That doesn't make any sense. So Katana took out her own teammate in order to get her teammates abilities. It's like friendly seppuku, okay? But just because Katana would be aware then that Psylocke probably has psychic powers, that doesn't make her immune to Psylocke's psychic attacks. Wha-

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Katana can't be easily affected psychically because the soul of her husband talks to her all the time through the sword, you know, feeding her information, and he'd warn her and tell her how to move and dodge and parry and slash and stuff if Psylocke tried to affect Katana psychically, like through illusions or clouding or anything like that. Uh, okay, alright. If you say so. I do! I think that's a reach. Uh, so suddenly Katana dies.

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because Cable lifts her up by her neck with his metal tech arm and just snaps the life out of her. Dude, she would literally slice that metal arm right the hell off before he could even do that. Not if Cable telekinetically keeps her from swinging that sword. Fuck! So she's out. Meanwhile, Talon is going up against Halo. And Halo, you know, she could probably block Talon's attacks with her orange force field. But Cable has the ability to...

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telepathically compel Halo to drop her forcefield. And that's gonna leave her vulnerable to Talon, who just rips Halo to shreds. No! Okay, well, you know what's cool though? Both of your guys that are left, Cable and Talon, they have conductive metal throughout their body. So while Cable is busy with Katana and Halo, his metal arm just gets slammed with millions of volts of electricity from Black Lightning.

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who also is going to chain that off of him to Talon. So both of them basically get electrocuted to death. And bam, Black Lightning emerges victorious. Oh, you think so? OK, right? Well, Black Lightning thinks that he's won. A little Deadpool emerges looking like a naked troll doll with a mask on because his decapitated head is regrowing his body. And like a weird baby, he stumbles over to Cable's body.

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and steals his time travel device and he uses it to travel through time and the multiverse and he's gonna pop back onto the battlefield the moment he left with a whole legion of Deadpool variants, the Deadpool core and Deadpool's gonna lead them into battle he's gonna be like FOR FREEDOM and they're gonna swarm black lightning and just massacre the guy like it's not pretty and then with the battle over Deadpool says to our listeners those shit fucks down the street

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never stood a chance and he does the X salute and he's like X force match over. Except that as he's doing the salute he's gonna get clocked by Shift which is a sentient Metamorpho remnant who was a part of the Outsiders for a time and you know he turned his fist into an anvil and just punches the lights out of Deadpool and in fact actually with all the scattered pieces of Metamorpho around the battlefield there's an army of shifts just ready to take on the Deadpool core.

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So good luck with that. I'm going to say that Metamorpho was blown up into two smaller pieces to actually form an army of Metamorphos. Metamorpho has like literally been vaporized multiple times and he's always come back. So has Deadpool. Unless you have like a magic sorcerer supreme Deadpool because that's really the only way Metamorpho can be taken out is magically. Then I think this match would just basically go on forever.

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I'm sorry to tell you one of the Deadpool variants is the Sorcerer Supreme. So there you go. And I think you're making that shit up. Well, we could go ahead and leave the match there. Either the Deadpool core beats this legion of Metamorphos or the Metamorphos beat the Deadpool core. We'll go ahead and input the stats on all these characters, run the simulations and see which team came out on top. AJ9K, hit it! Inputting data, running calculations.

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Processing results. Simulations complete. All right, this was a great matchup. These teams are very, very close. They were close thematically. They were close in terms of their backstories, and they're even close statistically. Cable was by far the most powerful member out of either of these groups. But the outsiders were no slouch either. Black Lightning, Metamorpho, Geoforce, they were all heavy hitters.

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Yeah, Geoforce was my heaviest, followed closely behind by Metamorpho, and Black Lightning was just under him. Yeah, actually both Geoforce and Metamorpho won around 3 fourths of all of their matches, and Black Lightning won about 3 fifths of his matches. Cable, though, won like 4 out of 5 of all his matches, but the rest of my guys didn't do as well. Like, Deadpool, Psylocke, Archangel, they all came out around the same statistically.

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winning just about half of their matchups. My second most powerful guy was actually Warpath, who won a little bit over half of his matchups. Yeah, not too many of my team members were around that 50 percent mark. I had some that were either like three fourths winning or one fourth winning. So, you know, it varied quite a bit. My weakest character by far, surprisingly, was Kitana. Yeah, she's not impressive statistically, is she?

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No, not even compared to some of your weaker characters. She only won one fifth out of every match, basically. Yeah, if you think about it, Katana has the ability to steal your soul if she kills you, right? But like, as a superpower, that's kind of lame because you'd be dead anyway, right? It was a power that didn't help her in the stats, really. In terms of the overall team stats, the biggest discrepancy between these two teams was fighting skill.

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and versatility. Like the outsiders were way more versatile than the X-Force who are mainly just you know like shoot and stab guys, but X-Force was much more trained in hand-to-hand combat than the outsiders. Which is wild because I feel like I had the best fighter in Black Bat. Yeah you had Black Bat and Katana, but you also had Halo who really brought your team down. Whereas everyone in X-Force is like an expert fighter almost. X-Force also had the edge in durability and strength

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but the outsiders had the edge in damage level and range. So taking all this into consideration, Jonathan, considering how close things are, who do you see coming out on top here? Well, it's definitely closer than I thought it was going to be. I thought the outsiders were totally going to stomp, but I think the outsiders are still going to come out ahead just barely. Instagram does not agree with me. Apparently X-Force is the more popular team. 62% of our poll takers sided with Marvel for this team match. And I'm ready to prove them all wrong.

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I don't know, they sound pretty right to me, but let's go ahead and find out. AJ9K, the results please. Here you are, sir. Alright the winner between the Outsiders and X-Force is... X-Force! Damn it! Suck on that! X-Force wins! It was really damn close though. Out of 1000 matches, X-Force won 509.

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whereas the outsiders won 491, basically a coin toss between these two teams. That is shocking. Again, I did not think it was gonna be this close. Me and the DC guys on Discord were like, oh yeah, outsiders is totally gonna take this one. Haha, Marvel's stupid. I mean, Marvel's still stupid. But then who turned out to be stupid, right? Is that what you're gonna say? No. I am super pleased with these results. I think X-Horse is just too badass of a team to lose.

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to a bunch of nobodies like outsiders like who the hell has ever heard of Halo? Not me. Uh, I'm pretty sure more people have heard of Halo than fucking Warpath. Warpath was in X-Men Days of Future Past. Okay? All of my guys on the X-Force team have been in movies. Oh, and guess what? Halo has been in Young Justice Outsiders. So that again, that's a fucking cartoon that nobody's watched. Marvel's just more popular.

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and they're stronger and in this case just better overall. But not better looking because you guys have Deadpool. Sure, but who cares? He kicked ass this match. Who really wins? DC. All right. You got to take what you can get, I suppose. Oh, we will. We will. But that does it for this team duel, guys. AJ and IK, help close this out.

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Thanks for listening to Dynamic Duel. Visit the show's website at dynamicDuel.com and follow us on Instagram at dynamicDuelpodcast. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash dynamicDuel and joining a tier that works for you, or by rating and reviewing Dynamic Duel on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network, including Max Destruction, Senjow World and Console Combat.

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In our next episode, we will be doing a review of Batman Caped Crusader season one. It's an animated series done by Bruce Tim that's currently on Amazon Prime. I have not started watching it, but you're going to hear all about what I think about it in our next episode. But that does it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken Johnson, John Sturowski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Belcombe, Miggye Mathagian.

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Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Schunk, Dean Molesky, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, and Josh Leiner for helping to make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. I wore my white pants for that episode, but then I remembered it's after Labor Day and now I'm just devastated.