Thor: The Dark World Review

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This is a DynaMic Network podcast.

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Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, as a tie-in to our last episode, which was a duel between Eclipso and Malekith, we are now doing a throwback review to Thor the Dark World. Right, because Malekith is the main villain of Thor the Dark World.

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You know what? I'm just gonna say it now. It's a good movie, guys. I'm sick of pretending like it's not. Alright? I never pretended like it wasn't. I always thought it was pretty good. Especially compared to where the franchise has gone now with Thor, Love and Thunder, you know? I really wish the franchise would go back to the tone of Thor the Dark World. And we'll talk more about the movie later on this episode. But, you know, for the haters out there that may dislike this movie, try sticking around. You might change your mind about the film.

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Before we review Thor the Dark World, we're going to break down the comic book movie news from the past week, of which there is one news item, an amazing news item, it was the official teaser trailer for Joker, Fall Ya Do, which was released during CinemaCon this past week. I don't know if I would call it an amazing news item so much as a news item, but as always we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out our show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. We're gonna fight, we're gonna throw hands.

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Our artificially intelligent duel simulator AJ9K has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up.

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Why hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of the dynamic duel community on Patreon, where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic two-o tier lets you listen to this podcast without ads and gives you access to its discord chat group, where you can chat with Johnny DC and marvelous Joe.

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Thanks AJ and IK and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Guys, be sure to tune into the shows in the Dynamite Podcast Network this week, including Max Destruction, which pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other.

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This week, Ken and Scotty are going to break down the latest WrestleMania that happened a few weeks ago, and I believe they're also tying in a Ready to Rumble review to that episode. Although that might come out the next week, we'll see. On the Send Your World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime characters. He was not able to put out an episode last Thursday, so this Thursday, again, we're going to find out who would win between Sanji from One Piece

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and Mic Guy from Naruto. And on the console combat podcast, hosts John and Dean find out who would win in fights between popular video game characters. And in yesterday's episode, they found out who would win between earthworm Jim and Booger Man. An incredible episode. Definitely check it out. Visit dynamic podcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in the DynaMic podcast network. Also guys, check out the TV and movie trivia podcast.

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where I did a guest spot with the host Brian over there on that show and I competed in trivia regarding the movie X-Men First Class. So, if you're a fan of X-Men First Class and of movie trivia and you think you know more about that movie than I do, go see if you're right by listening to the TV and movie trivia pod. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize! A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans.

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Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week we asked, what would be your favorite out of left field casting choice for an alternate universe Marvel or DC character? And this was coming off the news that Julia Garner was cast as the Silver Surfer in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie. We got a lot of great answers, so let's go ahead and break down our three honorable mentions, as well as the No Prize winner.

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Our first honorable mention goes to Brandon Estergard, who said, Hey guys, my out of left field casting would be for Anya Taylor Joy to play Luke Cage, not Lucille Cage, not Lucy Cage, Luke Cage. And right out of the gate with the left field casting choice, Brandon gave us Anya Taylor Joy as Luke Cage. I don't know if she could pull off the character that well, now that I think about it. She could probably pull off the yellow blouse.

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that he wore back in the day. And the tiara. The tiara she called. And the matching bracelets. Yeah, yeah, the bracelets, maybe the chain link belt that he's got going on, but I'd like to see her try it at the very least. Yeah. I feel like there would be riots if she did. She would get canceled so hard, so fast. She would, but I would still be interested to see it. Brandon actually gave two answers. He also said that he would like to see Dwayne the Rock Johnson play Starfire. He could pull off the outfit.

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for sure. Yeah, if any guy could, he could. But Brandon also said that he was especially looking forward to seeing the Rock wear a Starfire wig, which I would also love to see. Our next honorable mention goes to Jacob Bell, who said, Hey, what's up, guys? Jacob Bell here. You guys know that I love casting stuff. I'm super passionate about it. This one is definitely out of left field a little bit, but just kind of hang hang in there with me. But why can't Natalie Portman play the Joker? The

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like Bruce Wayne's mom version of the Joker from the Flashpoint Paradox movie. She has an Oscar. We know she can act. I like her in the Thor movies. I think she's good and she's old enough to play a mom. I just, I think it would be awesome. Awesome casting. So when we first heard that the Flash movie was going to take inspiration from the Flashpoint storyline in the comics, all of us loved the idea of Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Lauren Cohen.

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playing the Flashpoint versions of Batman and the Joker because of course in that universe Bruce Wayne's parents become Batman and the Joker respectively. I thought Lauren Cohen would have made a fantastic Joker but I also know that Natalie Portman could knock it out of the park. The Joker seems to be this role that good actors seem to thrive in, Jared Leto notwithstanding. So as could have been actress as Natalie Portman is, I'm sure she would also do well in the role.

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Yeah, in reference to this answer, I go back to the Natalie raps from Saturday Night Live and what a crazy character she is there. I think that could easily be transposed into the character of the Joker. Absolutely. Our final honorable mention goes to Miggy Mattenkian, who said, Hey, what's up guys, this is Miggy and my out of left field casting would be Rowan Atkinson as Alfred Pennyworth. At first glance, this is like not a great casting because Mr. Bean, you know, he's a very comedic actor.

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But he actually had a role of Black Adder where he was like the stuck-up like aristocrat. And I think that along with like a more serious like Johnny English type, I think could work really well for Alfred. So yeah, Rowan Atkinson, popularly known as Mr. Bean. I think I've only ever seen him in comedic roles. But I feel like he's a really good actor. And I think that a role like Alfred Pennyworth would really allow him to bring that out.

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I mean, you could also just have a comedic Alfred Pennyworth. Yeah, I mean, to me, that's not as interesting as just seeing Ron Atkinson going full on thespian mode, you know? Yeah, full on Shakespeare mode, for sure. Yeah. I actually don't think this is too far out of left field. Maybe in the sense that it would probably never happen, but you know what? I think he would actually be well suited to the role if he was ever cast. I don't think I would question it quite as much as say, you know, Anya Taylor Joy as Luke Cage. No, no.

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I think you could do just as good a job as Andy Serkis for sure. Great answer, Miggy. We want to give a special shout out to Colby Hentges, who said that Jonathan Majors could play Icon. Yikes. Connor Pierce said that Kelly Rohrbach could play Power Girl and Scott Camacho, whose favorite out of left field casting was actually Michael Keaton as Batman. But the winner of this week's No Prize is Travis Bailey, who said. All right, Travis Bailey.

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What's up to my twin? All right. Listen Joe's on to something. All right. She's an alternate universe Silver surfer, right? So I'm gonna take you back to issue 12. What if what if Rick James was the Hulk? All right. I take an AI generated Rick James, but follow me with this. What if Britney Spears was the Hulk now she hawked the Hulk and you can have all the stuff she got with her father as a All right, he got cut off there, but

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I love this answer so much. What if Rick James was the Hulk? Now, actually, the official what if issue 12 was what if Rick Jones was the Hulk? But I googled this and there was a parody of that issue that said, what if Rick James was the Hulk? And it's it's freaking hilarious. I love the idea of this. Gamma radiation is a hell of a drug. Instead of Hulk smash, you'd be like, give it to me, baby. People would call him super freakish, for sure.

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But, uh, Britney Spears as the Hulk, that's definitely inspired considering both of the characters have, you know, daddy issues. I totally see it. Yeah, I think she'd probably shave her head and then go green and then just... Act like her normal self. Just dancing with knives and crazy shit. Jeez, I don't know if the whole making fun of her shaving her head thing is a decade too late of a joke, but yeah, we'll go with that. We'll go with that. So congrats to Travis Bailey for winning this week's No Prize.

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If you the listener want to shout out winning your own no prize, stay tuned to later on this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. And now that that's done, on to the news!

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Alright, before we get into this I just want you guys to know that Joseph super butthurt about me not liking the casting of the Surfer Surfer. So he's planning on shitting all over this trailer, but he can do whatever he wants, we don't care because we all know that this trailer was awesome. The trailer was released last week during CinemaCon and there was quite a bit of news to come out for both Marvel and DC during this, including the Superman logo and some footage from the new Captain America movie. But I think hands down, the biggest thing to come out.

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of the entire convention was the official teaser trailer for Joker Folly-a-doo. It was alright. When we first heard that this was going to be a musical, some fans were up in ire. Again, I was not one of those until I learned that it was going to be a jukebox musical. I was actually very disappointed by that. If you're not familiar with what a jukebox musical is, it's a musical that has no original music.

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It just rehashes pop music essentially. So I was pretty apprehensive going into this trailer until I saw it and all of its beauty and all of its splendor. One of my favorite trailers of all time was actually the first trailer we got for the first Joker movie. And this reminded me a lot of that. In fact, I would say I enjoyed this trailer more than that first one. It captured all of the emotion, but the cinematography here was

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just so unbelievably gorgeous as well. Jonathan, why are you so wishy washy when it comes to this movie? What are you talking about? First you like it, then you hate the idea of it, then you like it again, and then you're like, oh no, I don't wanna see it. And then you're like, okay, I love it actually. Well, I was the same way with the first Joker movie, honestly, like at first I was like, ah, this is dumb. Why are they making a Joker origin story? No one wants this. Until I saw the first trailer and I was totally sold, this is the case again.

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We see the trailer start off with Arthur Fleck in Arkham Asylum. He's being taken out of his jail cell by Brandon Gleason, of all people. I don't even know he was in this movie, but he's, you know, a really good actor. They take the character of Arthur Fleck right past Lady Gaga's character, who seems to be a patient at Arkham as well, which is really confusing because we know that Harley Quinzel was actually a doctor at Arkham Asylum, a psychologist who helped treat the Joker.

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Of course, she doesn't stay there throughout the trailer. We see her actually out and about in the city of Gotham without the Joker. So I think she's actually manipulating Kim in this trailer. That's my theory. Although I've heard other theories that say she's not actually there. He's just imagining her in the same way that Joker had a lot of hallucinations in the first movie with Zazie Beats character. How she was always there supporting Kim when in fact she really wasn't. It's hard to say what's real.

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and what's fake, what's a part of Joker's imagination in this movie. Because early on, we see him walking through the Arkham Courtyard and the guards have these umbrellas that Arthur suddenly imagines very colorful. It's a really beautiful scene, but also hints at the imaginary world that Arthur is creating for himself. Once the character of Harley invites the Joker out, as if maybe they're going to escape or just go outside,

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That's when the music of the trailer really starts. We see both Joker and Harley on the rooftop of Hotel Arkham. Apparently, they're imagining the scene. And they start dancing, and it just segues into this moment of chaos, where we see buildings burning down and the background in ambulances and police cars driving by. And Joker and Harley don't seem to care. They're just enamored with each other, just living life and loving music, it seems. It's like the Joker dreamed of being a comedian on stage.

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in the first movie, but here it seems like he's fantasizing more about being a musician on stage, which kind of plays into Todd Phillips' whole concept for the character of the Joker. You know, Todd Phillips has said that he has music in his soul, which is why he did this kind of dance the first time he killed someone in the first movie. And it seems like this Harley Quinn is really playing up on that. I'm really looking forward to see how Harley fits into everything in this movie. So you're looking forward to this movie?

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Would you say that the depiction of Harley and Joker's relationship is accurate to the comic books? In a sense, I would say that if they're going the route where Harley is trying to manipulate the Joker so that she can write a tell-all book, that's accurate to the comics. That was straight out of Mad Love. I think, yeah, this will be accurate for the most part, but it's still an interesting twist that I love that they're making for this film. Because it makes the character of Harley...

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appear much more intelligent in the way that she's able to manipulate Joker. Because oftentimes, you know, Harley Quinn is the one who suffers from abuse and she's the one who's manipulated by Joker. But I think in this film, we're actually going to see them sort of manipulate each other. That's sort of my theory. Would you say the Joker is accurate to the comics? The Joker is accurate to the Joker film. I mean, this is a sequel. I think I think by the end of this film, the Joker is going to

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Snap more than he's ever snapped before and he's going to become the Joker of the comics Okay, so but he's there's a lot of differences here in the Joker than how he is in the comics, right? Definitely not as much as silver surfer being a woman. I know where you're trying to go But you're willing to accept these changes though, because it's like an elseworlds like an alternate universe kind of you know Except the Fantastic Four movie is not an elseworlds tale

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It's the MCU, and the first time you're introducing a character, it shouldn't be an alternate version of the character. You know, it's not like they genderbent Mr. Fantastic when we first saw him in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. Sure, Captain America has already been established as a man, so I think it's okay genderbending him with Peggy Carter, but it's a mistake to do that with Silver Surfer. I don't even know why we're talking about this and need to get over it.

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Moving back to the Joker Folio Do trailer. So it's okay to make changes to alternate universes from the comics. There's a line you don't cross and the Fantastic Four crossed that line. I think the Joker crossed the line too. It was just something you didn't want to accept until you actually saw the movie. And since you don't actually know what your opinions are until you see things, and maybe even sometimes after you see things, as is the case with the first Joker film, maybe you just don't know what you're talking about. No, I think I do.

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Another thing that reminded me of the first Joker trailer with this trailer was how he's speaking with his therapist. Arthur Fleck was such a lonely character in the first movie, so it makes sense that he could almost start to heal with the emergence of Harley Quinn. And I think that's really going to ultimately lead to his downfall is that when he finds out that she's manipulating him, he's just going to snap. And I'm kind of worried about what's going to happen with Harley.

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Whatever happens in the film, it definitely looks like Harley starts to lose her grip on reality in the same way that maybe the Joker is in the fact that she's starting to smear blood on her face and do the whole makeup thing. It gets pretty wild, but nothing is more wild and awesome than the final shot, the final scene of this trailer, which you wouldn't think it would be because it's essentially just Harley drawing a smile with lipstick on a glass pane.

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But the way it lined up with Joaquin Phoenix's sinister smile just screamed Joker to me. It was so, so well shot. Like this entire film. Holy cow. I also have to commend the people who made the trailer for their song choice of Tom Jones, What the World Needs Now is Love. I think that's the name of the song. Perfect choice. Love everything about this trailer. Hopefully I'm going to love everything about this movie.

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Because the first movie was really hard to watch and I'm sure this one will be too, but I'm totally ready for it. Well Jonathan, I'm glad to see you admit that you shouldn't judge things prematurely and maybe wait and see how they come out before basing your opinion. And that brings us to our question of the week.

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What film are you looking forward to more this year? Deadpool and Wolverine or Joker Follyadoo and why? Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic duel no prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before...

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April 20th.

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But I think that does it for all the news from this episode. Now let's move on to the main event, where we review the 2013 MCU film, Thor, The Dark World.

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Okay, Thor the Dark World was released in 2013, directed by Alan Taylor, and it stars Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, Natalie Portman, and Christopher Ecclestone. Right up top, I'm going to give you listeners your spoiler warning. If you haven't seen Thor the Dark World yet, and you like the character of Thor, definitely go give the movie a watch before listening to this spoiler filled review.

20:50
Now we haven't reviewed the first Thor movie yet, but I thought it was an interesting and successful way to introduce the concept of magic and fantasy in the very science fiction-y world of the Marvel Cinematic Universe at the time. I knew that a sequel of the first film was given after the Avengers movie and I was looking forward to Thor the Dark World, especially when they announced that Alan Taylor would be directing it, a guy who had helmed some of the better Game of Thrones episodes. But originally he wasn't going to direct it, right? It was going to be Patty Jenkins, the same director who did Wonder Woman.

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Right, yeah, but she had a falling out due to creative differences. Although it was a cordial split for Marvel, as I understand it. I'll be honest, when Thor the Dark World came out, I hadn't seen any of Game of Thrones yet, but I did know of the show's reputation, and I knew that the realm of mythological high fantasy was exactly where I wanted the Thor franchise to go. And during the marketing of the movie, you know, we saw that he was going to visit other realms, and that we'd see the Dark Elves, and needless to say,

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I was excited for this movie, but when I left the theater, you know what? I was still excited, you know? The film was almost exactly what I expected and the ending was spectacular because we saw Loki secretly on Asgard's throne and we got the very first mention of the Infinity Gems or stones as they came to be known in the movies. Like I was pumped leaving the theater.

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I even went and saw it in theaters again, and I guess I never really understood the general disdain for this movie. Yeah, me neither. Like I heard this movie was bad, so I never went to go see it in theaters. I actually did not see this movie until I think a few days before seeing Thor Ragnarok, because you essentially forced me to watch it. And I was glad I did. I totally do not understand the hate that this film gets. Yeah, I mean, I'll admit it's been a good five or so years since I've rewatched this movie.

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I don't know if it's because of how the Thor franchise has devolved with Thor 11th Under, and maybe my mind is just comparing Thor the Dark World to the current state of the franchise. But yeah, I really enjoyed watching this movie again. I feel like Thor the Dark World is so much more like what an ideal Thor film should be. Oh yeah, yeah I liked this so much more than the first movie. I actually liked this more than Thor Ragnarok even, I know that's like a lot of people's favorite Thor movie.

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But for me, I want to see Thor in his like Norse mythical element. Taika Waititi ruined Thor in some ways because they took the character in such a comedic route that I don't know if we could ever get back to this version of Thor that's much more Shakespearean, much more dramatic. I hope they do, though. Yeah, I think if they tried to revert back to this more serious tone, people would be like, when did Thor become so boring or something like that? But that's not the case. It's more like when did Thor become so goofy? Right.

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So yeah, I really like Thor the Dark World. Don't get me wrong, the movie's not perfect. It does suffer from an underwhelming villain and a mumbo jumbo-y plot device in the Convergence, but Thor the Dark World is where I'd really like to see the franchise return. My favorite Thor stories from the comics are the ones that take place entirely or largely away from Earth within the other eight realms, where we get to explore Marvel's unique approach to Norse mythology, which I find fascinating. Stories like Disassembled, where Ragnarok finally takes hold.

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Mjolnir's Song where Thor battles the Midgard Serpent, Tales of Asgard, and the Surtr Saga. All awesome. I love when Thor's stories feel like Lord of the Rings because the realm of fantasy is kind of unique in Marvel. Like the mythic fantasy genre isn't exclusive to Thor because you still have characters like Hercules and the Black Knight. But Thor is a great character and his popularity gives Marvel probably their best opportunity for that kind of mythical fantasy exploration and world building.

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Yeah, especially considering that, like, high fantasy really came out of Norse mythology, I would say. Like, the world of Lord of the Rings owes so much to it that Marvel could totally play up on that fact. Yeah, high fantasy as we know it is a mix of, like, Celtic and Norse mythology. And I'm a huge fan of the Lord of the Rings. And I feel like this Thor the Dark World is the closest that Marvel has ever gotten to that. Yeah, I would say that it's the closest that anything from Marvel or DC has ever gotten

25:03
to that sort of high fantasy kind of approach. But the cool thing about the world of Thor too is that it feels so believable in a way too, which I love. Yeah, I mean, the world building in Thor the Dark World is a lot of fun. From Asgard's flying aircraft to Svartalheim's never-ending eclipse, from Odin's library room to, you know, the village camps of Vanaheim. I just had a blast on every one of those worlds and I wish we got more of that.

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You know, none of this new Asgard on Earth crap where they serve Infinity Cone's ice cream. Bullshit. Ugh. Asgard has gotten so dumb lately and it's so lame that they blew it up in the MCU so they can't like ever go back there. They gotta find a way to rebuild Asgard so that the Asgardians can find their former glory because right now they're just a shell of what they used to be. The overarching story here is kind of interesting too where you have this ancient race of dark beings trying to restore the reality from before the dawn of light.

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using an all-powerful magic artifact during a time when all the realms align. You know, the setup is really good for a high fantasy adventure. Where it all goes wrong is in the climax, and I think that's what mostly disappointed viewers, because what was supposed to be the strongest point of the movie kind of fell flat. In the final battle between Malekith and Thor, you know, you have, you know, a bland, underwhelming villain using this powerful artifact in one of the most unimaginative ways possible.

26:27
You have a bunch of less interesting human side characters running around adding needless comedic relief. And while the portals between the realms added an interesting dynamic to the battle and gave it some nice momentum, it was kind of hard to understand where and why and when the portals were going to take the fight to another world. And so it felt kind of disorienting from a narrative and visual standpoint. Absolutely. I honestly feel like the human characters in this movie kind of ruined the film. I don't think you even really needed them.

26:56
Yeah, but like I feel like the criticisms of the film's comedy that I heard when the film came out, like the jokey scene of Selvick running around naked at Stonehenge, those nitpicks I feel like don't hold as much weight now as they used to considering that that scene seems rather minor compared to the stupidity of where the franchise is now. Very true. If anything, Thor the Dark World has just gotten better with age as a film.

27:21
I definitely agree and I hope that eventually over time people online and the social media community will see how good this movie was compared to the Takeaway TD films that we got. Yeah, go back and sample it guys. If it's been a while since you've seen the movie or if you didn't like the movie to begin with, you might find that your opinion has changed on it. I think for the angle between Thor and his brother Loki alone, that makes this entire movie. Oh for sure, yeah.

27:47
I mean, the brothers had a good dynamic going in Thor Ragnarok, but I think in Thor the Dark World they had their best moment. Let's go ahead and talk about the characters more in our character breakdown. Starting with Thor Odinson, played by Chris Hemsworth. Now I think Hemsworth's performance in this movie is the most he's ever felt like Thor to me. You know, I know he prefers his goofy jokes and ultimately took the character in a much more comedic route because he found this more serious Thor to be bland. But as a fan of the comics, I've never found Thor to be goofy.

28:16
To me, he's always been noble, serious, and yet also zealous in battle. I thought his role here built off of the first Thor movie pretty well, where we saw him mature a little bit. And also he had some good vulnerable moments in the film, such as when his mother, Frigga, died or when he was arguing with Loki on Spratlheim. There's a reason why Verisimilitude was the theme behind the scenes of Richard Donner's first Superman movie. It was because you could totally go the Adam West Batman route with this, but that's not what he wanted.

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because he wanted to treat the character with more respect. And you know, Patty Jenkins took the same approach with the first Wonder Woman movie. The word cheesy was banned on set because they wanted to treat the characters with seriousness. And I feel like Alan Taylor took the same approach with a lot of scenes, probably a majority of the scenes in this movie. Yeah, and he kind of grounded things too. I mean, if you look at Thor's arc, it's really centered around his love for Jane. From beginning to end, you know, he dismisses Sif. He watches Jane with Heimdall.

29:14
When he sees she's in trouble, he brings her to Asgard. When she's dying, he risks it all to have Malekith remove the Aether from her. And when the realms are saved, he renounces his throne to be with her. There's an interesting moment midway through the film when Loki tells Thor that Jane is going to die regardless if the Aether takes her or not. That even if she lives decades longer, the time would be fleeting to them as gods. And Thor simply states that he won't be saying goodbye to her today. You know, it was almost a nice foreshadowing.

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to the events of Thor, Love and Thunder. I will never forgive that fourth film for butchering Jane's cancer arc the way that it did because it really had the perfect setup from this movie. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, that was definitely top of mind as I was rewatching this because I'd forgotten that the ether made her sick. Yeah. Speaking of Jane Foster, let's go ahead and move on to her played by Natalie Portman. Now Natalie Portman, I thought was fine here in this movie. Sometimes she could be a little bit iffy in her acting, especially with scenes that you could tell she's not quite comfortable in.

30:12
but I thought she did pretty well in this film particularly. Yeah, I thought she did better here than she did in Love and Thunder. I believed the romance between her and Thor. Yeah, where Thor was a fish out of water in the first movie on Earth, it was interesting to see that flipped where she was the fish out of water traveling among Asgard and the other realms. One of the things that I appreciate the most about Jane, and I don't know if everyone appreciates this, but it's one of the things that I find endearing about her character.

30:40
is how she uses science to explain her understanding of the magic of the nine realms. Like what Thor calls the Bifrost, she calls an Einstein-Rosen Bridge. What Odin calls the Convergence, she calls spatial extrusions and gravitational anomalies. What they call the Soul Forge, she calls a... Quantum field generator. Yeah, I always liked that about her character. Just the way these like mortal minds could possibly conceive of this mythological magic, you know?

31:08
And I thought it was a particularly nice, subtle moment when she finally got to travel through the Bifrost. You got this flash of the scientist in her just giddy with happiness finally getting to be inside the thing that she had spent her whole life studying. And also, I really liked her wardrobe here. I think Natalie Portman looked really great in the S. Guardian garb. And actually, I think everyone looked great in Thor the Dark World. This movie had the best costumes out of all the films. It just all felt very classic. Oh, yeah.

31:34
Yeah, everything from the Dark Elves to the different realms I thought were amazing. Loki has never looked better. Yeah, and Thor too. He didn't have like the goofy bleached eyebrows and he had like longer hair here and just his costume looked a little bit more grand to me. Yeah, even when he was walking around in Asgard without it. Yeah. Let's go to move on to Loki Loffi-san, played by Tom Hiddleston. Man, Loki was so good in this movie.

32:01
Of course, Tom Hiddleston nailed the performance and as far as I'm concerned, it was the perfect arc for Loki following his previous two film appearances. He gets imprisoned, during which time the only person he ever cared for, his adoptive mother Frigga, gets killed. So we see him at his absolute lowest point, then he teams up with his brother and mortal enemy for a chance at revenge.

32:22
and he ends up still scheming to take the throne at the finale, which he gets and seems like his highest point. So there's a real rollercoaster here with Loki. It was so much fun to watch the story unfold here. And he's just far and away the MCU's most interesting character when you think about how far he's come, you know, through these Thor films and even through his own television series. I also love the fact that he sacrificed himself in the middle of that. Like he had this like bit of redemption. And I remember the first time I watched this.

32:48
I totally did not see that Loki took the throne from Odin initially. Yeah, my jaw dropped because I had no idea what was going on. Svartelheim, when you see him like take on the role of the Einherjar. I think I'm pronouncing that right. The soldier guy. Yeah. And then he goes and reports back to Odin and he was like, there was a body. And then there was an interesting moment there where Odin says Loki. And then the soldier guy smiles. And I think it's up for interpretation. What happens there?

33:16
Either Odin recognizes that soldier as Loki and is addressing him as such, or he's saying that the body they found was Loki. And then the guy smiles because he's about to enact his spell that casts Odin down to Midgard, you know. It's a wonderfully ambiguous moment. That's just peak Loki. Anthony Hopkins is such a phenomenal actor in this. I still can't believe he's in the Marvel Universe. He's too damn good for it. More like too good for the DC Universe, you mean?

33:45
Which is why he's never been in it. But speaking of classic British actors, let's go ahead and move on to Malekith, played by Christopher Eccleston. Christopher Eccleston is a solid actor. When he was cast as Malekith, I was ecstatic because even though I've never seen Doctor Who, I knew of his reputation, and I had seen Eccleston in some other things. When I saw his performance though, I was really disappointed at how generic and bland he approached the role.

34:13
I don't know if that was a direction thing or if he thought that the makeup would do most of the acting for him, but it wasn't interesting. And that's a shame because as you learned in our last episode, the character of Malekith is so interesting from the comics. Yeah, I mean, I remember thinking as you were reading his bio, like, is this going to ruin Thor the Dark World for me? Luckily it didn't. And I agree with you that he probably put on the costume and just felt like he was embodying the character. Although, you know,

34:42
British actors tend to be more technical than method when it comes to their acting approach. But I don't think it's that bad. Yes, it is bland, but I think it wouldn't have come across as so bland if he wasn't around such a colorful cast of characters, specifically the goofy human ones. Like Sauron is, you know, pretty bland, you could argue. But no one complains about that. Sauron is more of an entity, you know, than an actual character. Well, a ringwraith then. I guess also entities.

35:12
Yeah. Now this film Malekith's motivation is his fixation on returning the universe to one of darkness when the dark elves thrived before the dawn of light. He tries to use the reality stone to achieve his goal, but the problem is that even when he gets the ether, he doesn't particularly seem as threatening as he should be. No. You know, for a guy who can warp all reality, he seems unimaginative and underpowered. Well, I mean, it was never really clearly established that

35:39
he had the reality infinity stone until the very end of the movie. So, I mean, if you're just watching this for the first time, you're not going to assume that he just all of a sudden has infinite power almost. But yeah, in hindsight, watching this, oh, you're going to shoot some crystal shards. OK, they seem to be doing nothing. I mean, we spent the whole movie as the audience just dreading what would happen if the villain got his red juice.

36:06
And you know, it was underwhelming, especially the line from Thor during the climactic battle when he says, You know, with all that power, I thought you'd hit harder. That horribly undersold Malekith and his might. You know, he seemed so much weaker than his henchman, Kurs, who was beating the shit out of Thor over on Svartalheim. Right? So it just made Malekith all the less impressive, which is something that you don't want for a guy who already started out pretty bland. Well, how would you have changed it? Like, what would you have done?

36:36
I would have changed the characterization of Malekith and I also would have rewritten the climactic battle so that it was more of a struggle for Thor. He can't be going around saying lines like, you call that a punch or something like that, you know, it just doesn't work. The villain needs to be seen as a legitimate threat. Now, there are a few other characters within the movie. You know, you have the human scientists and you also have the Warriors Three and the other Asgardians and you have Curse as well.

37:03
but none of them had substantial enough roles within the plot, I think, to warrant a character breakdown. So let's go ahead and move into our story highlights.

37:17
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38:04
Millennia ago, the leader of the Dark Elves, Malekith the Accursed, tried to use the power of the Reality Warping Aether to cast the universe into darkness during a time when the Nine Realms were in celestial alignment. He was stopped by Bor, leader of the Asgardians who caused Malekith to flee, and the Asgardians hid the Aether deep underground. This opening scene was awesome. Dude, it reminded me of the opening scene to the Fellowship of the Ring. Yeah. It was so cool to see Odin's father, Bor.

38:34
and to see him lead the Asgardians against the Dark Elves. Just all the world building that took place in the scene alone had me pumped for the rest of the movie. I just love the approach they took with the Dark Elves and the Asgardians, and like the different weaponry they had and stuff like that. Like the Dark Elves had their black hole bombs and red crystals that they could crush and would turn them into like these powerhouses. It was almost like, I don't know why, StarCraft for some reason to me.

39:01
Yeah, like it was like the Zerg versus the Protoss or something like that. It was just really cool. That's a great analogy. That's really what it felt like. I don't necessarily love the more sci-fi angle of the Dark Elves, but somehow we still managed to work within the parameters of this mythological fantasy world building. Yeah, I think Alan Taylor has done that better than any other director to handle Thor. Yeah, the look of the Dark Elves to their masks. That's cool. That's really cool.

39:29
I guess I just wish they weren't firing guns. I wish they were firing bow and arrow type weapons. Or at least like a, like do a crossbow. Like meet me in the middle. Right. In the present day, after the battle of New York, Loki is imprisoned for attempting to enslave humanity. With the Bifrost now restored after the events of the first Thor film, Thor and his friends travel the realms, restoring peace before returning home to Asgard. The scene on Vanaheim.

39:55
was interesting because you have Thor going up against a cronin, which is a race of beings that Korg is a member of. So it's funny seeing this like serious version of Korg just get his ass kicked by Thor when he essentially reduces him to rubble. I wish Thor would do that to Korg. Yeah, I agree. That's what I felt when I saw that. It's interesting how each of the realms have their own kind of geography to them. Like Vanaheim is very much like the foresty type realm.

40:24
You know, Jotunheim is the icy realm, Muspelheim is the fiery realm. You have Svartelheim, which is like the dark desert. Midgard, of course, is the planet Earth. Asgard is the golden city, the golden realm, you know. Oh, man. Niflheim, which was portrayed in Thor Ragnarok when Valkyrie fought Hela, and that was like a land of smoke and mist and stuff. So many different worlds. Such cool settings. Yeah, they're really cool.

40:49
Meanwhile, on Earth, astrophysicist Jane Foster and her assistant Darcy stumble upon a gravitational anomaly in London caused by the Convergence, which is an alignment of the realms. A hidden portal takes Jane to the secret location of the Aether, where it invades her body. Thor notices her disappearance and travels to Earth to bring her to Asgard for help. There, Thor and Jane learn that the Aether will kill Jane if it's not removed from her body. Now, as far as plot devices go,

41:18
The convergence is not the cleanest. It's a little bit muddy. There aren't any clear rules to it other than just sometimes there are these places where you can slip between the worlds. And that's basically it. How that corresponds to the floating disks that appear hovering over a Greenwich during the precise moment of the convergence and stuff like that. It's, it's a little bit weird. I don't know if they quite knew how to depict it in this abstract way. I just don't think it was very successful.

41:47
I saw those as sort of like tears in reality and like openings to these other worlds essentially. I didn't think it was terrible. I think that's what a lot of people have issue with this film though. It's simple in concept, but the more you think about it, I feel like the less it holds up and it's largely a matter of convenience in terms of how the plot progresses. Like, of course Jane just happened to find the portal that leads to the secret location of the ether. Of course.

42:14
Thor and Jane just happen to find the portal that leads back to Jane's car back on Earth at the end, you know? Well, I mean, sort of. The first one I would say, you know, she is a leading scientist in the world regarding this kind of stuff. So it makes sense that she would stumble upon it before pretty much anyone else except for those kids. You could definitely say it's convenient.

42:37
That they found their way back to their car But they also kind of set that up earlier in the film in the scene that we're talking about Where things would go through the portals and come back to the same location? So not too convenient. You don't have to spend so much time defending it man. It's okay It is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I'm saying it makes sense in the story that they set up right in concept Yes, but I also think that maybe you're not thinking about as hard as you could be and for that. I'm grateful I'm thinking about it so hard. You have no idea

43:07
My favorite joke in this whole movie is when the intern to Darcy throws the keys into the portal and then they just like don't reappear and she's like, were those the car keys? That was a solid joke. Yeah, that was great. Back to the story, the discovery of the Aether awakens the Dark Elves from suspended animation. Malekith's lieutenant, Algrim the Strong, goes undercover as a marauder and infiltrates Asgard's prison.

43:33
where he dons the curse armor and causes a mass breakout. The Dark Elves invade Asgard looking for Jane to extract the Aether from her, though Thor's mother Frigga successfully hides her and is killed in the process. Thor burns half of Malekith's face with his lightning, but he is unable to keep the Dark Elves from fleeing. Asgard mourns Frigga, including Loki, from his cell. So much to talk about here.

43:58
The way they portrayed the curse armor in this movie I thought was really cool. And he was definitely as strong as he's supposed to be. Because curse in the comics is about twice as strong as Thor. And Thor is stronger than a motherfucker. So this guy is incredibly strong. And I think they did a good job of showcasing that power and just, you know, his ability to punch his way out of prison, essentially. Yeah, he literally punched through a force field. That was wild.

44:24
Frigga's final fight against Malekith I thought was badass. She turned into a total freaking warrior chick just slashing him across the face and stuff. Rene Russo was badass with that sword. I don't know if that was entirely her in all those shots, but I was impressed. So it was incredibly tragic when Malekith had cursed Stapper. Yeah, that was a great scene. I love the fact that they depicted her as this trickster. It really led credence to the idea that she had a close relationship with Loki and maybe like taught him everything he knows.

44:52
and gave him reason and justification for why he would be upset by her death enough to team up with his rival. The scene when Loki learns that Frigid died, he kind of takes it in stride with a stone face and then unleashes his might subtly just by clenching his fist and all the furniture around his room goes flying. You see the storm of emotion that's welling inside of him. Yeah, totally. Regarding the fight...

45:19
of the Dark Elves versus the Asgardian forces. The Dark Elves are cloaked from Asgard and from Heimdall in particular. He was not able to detect their invasion. And when they fly past his sentry post, I thought the movie got very Star Wars-esque because you have these like Viking ship-inspired crafts shooting like light lasers at these Dark Elf ships that are almost like flying swords the way they like crash into stuff. It was incredibly imaginative. Dude.

45:48
Those ships are way cooler than TIE fighters. The Elves ships, they were really cool. I've never seen anything like that in any sort of sci-fi spacefaring action scene. You know, it was really cool. Dude, they did here. Why do people hate this movie? It makes no sense. They just need to watch that scene again. Hell, yeah. What did you think of the funeral scene when they shot the flaming arrow onto Frigga's boat and then it turned into stars that floated up into the cosmos?

46:14
I thought that was really heartfelt and a really good way of like reimagining a god version of a Viking funeral. Yeah, it was more emotional than I even remembered. I think it was the music. The movie has a beautiful score and the theme that's playing as they send up these like magic light ball, like paper lantern-esque lights into the sky was just breathtaking. Back to the story. To prevent another invasion into Asgard, Thor develops a plan to take Jane to the Dark World, Svartalheim.

46:43
to draw Malekith there where he can extract the Aether and then Thor can destroy it. Odin denies his request, believing Malekith obtaining the Aether is too great a risk. Thor then conspires with his friends to steal Jaina away in secret, and he breaks Loki out of prison for his help since the God of Mischief knows the secret way out of Asgard. The whole heist scene that happens in the second act of this movie was incredible. It's so much fun. Especially because that's when Loki really comes into play.

47:11
You know, and that scene where Thor approaches his brother and we see him lying on the floor just in agony. That was a great brotherly moment. And, you know, when Loki's giving Thor shit and transforms into Captain America and everything like that, it's just a series of great moments one right after the other during this whole heist portion. Yeah, I agree. My favorite part was where Loki was like, this is the dumbest idea. You're taking the biggest ship and you're trying to escape with it. And then Thor just like pushes him out of the ship. That was hilarious. That was great.

47:39
I had forgotten that Zachary Levi was in this film. Yeah, he plays Fandral, the dashing. He was actually recast from the actor who played the character in the first film. And he did a great job. He does a fantastic job. He has a very like Errol Flynn demeanor about him that just suits the character so well. Yeah. There was another great scene that happened around this point in the story where Thor and Loki are on Svartalheim traveling toward Malekith and Thor tells his brother like,

48:09
and Loki's like, you can trust my rage. I thought that was fantastic character building and relationship building. Oh, that and the whole conversation preceding it, that was fantastic stuff. Right. Loki blames Thor for him being imprisoned during his mother's death, but Thor was like, actually you're to blame for that. And it's just like, the conflict there is brilliant. Thor and Loki confront Melekith and the Dark Elves. When it appears, Loki betrays Thor and cuts off his hand.

48:35
However, the illusion is revealed when Thor's hand reappears as he uses Mjolnir's lightning in an attempt to destroy the Aether as it's extracted from Jain. The attempt proves fruitless however, and Malekith acquires his prize before fleeing, leaving Kirst to battle Thor and Loki. Loki kills Kirst with one of his own gravity grenades, but is stabbed in the process and seemingly dies in Thor's arms. Man, okay, so what did you think the first time you saw Loki's apparent betrayal in this movie?

49:02
Dude, I was pissed and shocked. I was incredibly surprised. I did not see it coming. But I also thought like classic Loki, you know, like he can't trust him. But it was surprising to me just how harsh he seemingly went about it, where he was like, I'm Loki of Jotunheim. I asked for one thing, a good place to watch Asgard burn. I'm like, well, this guy holds a grudge like none other. The emotions that just like surged through the audience when watching this movie the first time when it was revealed that it was all a trick.

49:30
and that Loki and Thor were actually working together. You know, first you have the relief that Loki's not that big of a douchebag. Then you have the relief that it looks like their plan is going to be carried out and, you know, they're going to destroy the Aether and save the day and work together. And it was all just fantastic. And then you combine that with what happened shortly after where Loki seemingly dies. And it's nothing short of a roller coaster. It was so thrilling to watch. I just loved the drama of it. On top of that, you have...

49:59
Loki's real betrayal where he takes the throne of Asgard. And yeah, this is like peak Thor and Loki. Guys, like who dislikes this movie? You're wrong, you're wrong. I thought it was particularly badass how Loki seemingly died and how Loki killed Kurs. Like Kurs was just laying waste to Thor, you know. He was even deflecting Mjolnir being thrown at him and stuff like that, because he's just that strong. But then Loki runs a sword through Kurs, Kurs not even really being affected.

50:26
uses that same sword that's going through his body to impale Loki, but Loki basically sacrifices himself to get in close and pull one of Curse's gravity bombs. It was a fascinating sequence of events right there. Yeah, honestly, my favorite part of the whole movie. This whole scene was just great. Yeah. Back to the story, Thor and Jane retreat to a cave where Jane discovers another portal between Svartalheim and Earth.

50:50
Back in London, she and Thor regroup with Darcy and Erik Selvig where they determine the center of the convergence will be in Greenwich, England. When Malekith and the Dark Elves arrive, Thor battles them as Jane and Erik use gravitational anomaly detectors to help him out. I still don't understand how the humans were able to create like portals and stuff with these tool things. I don't know. It was just, it was too much. They were MacGuffins for sure. They weren't created to generate portals.

51:20
They just happened to be able to tap into that kind of energy because they were made to detect gravitational anomalies. I don't know if the science quite checks out on that, but you know, that's one of the issues with this climactic battle to begin with. You're saying that, you know, there's mumbo jumbo in this movie. This is really, I feel like the only thing that's mumbo jumbo. This is the only thing that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. Well, largely also because Thor was able to use them as such powerful tools against his enemy.

51:47
when he was like throwing him into his arms and then Jane was using her computer to transport Malekith's body parts and stuff like that. They were kind of cheating, I think. Absolutely. I guess is a way to put it. And I guess you're right that Malekith was too weak in the sense that Kurs was blocking shots from Yolner, but it just took one shot from Yolner to essentially destroy Malekith. Well, the final shot from Thor didn't destroy Malekith. It transported him limbless.

52:16
to Svartalheim where eventually the ship crashed onto him and that's what destroyed Malekith. That's fair. That's true. But we're not quite there yet. Thor's battle against Malekith goes between the realms of Earth, Svartalheim, Vanaheim, and Jotunheim as the Convergence reaches precise alignment. Thor loses Mjolnir in the fight and Malekith begins shrouding the universe in darkness. Thor uses the gravitational anomaly detectors to teleport Malekith away from the Convergence and back into the Dark World.

52:44
The Elves ship also gets transported there where it falls and crushes Malekith, destroying him. Like I just said. In addition to all the substandard stuff going on during this climax, I didn't like how they disrupted the action by having Thor take the underground train to get back to Greenwich. I thought it was a needless break that really sapped the great momentum that they had built up during the battle as they were just basically flying through all these different realms, battling each other. No, I 100% agree.

53:10
It's just that stupid Marvel bathos that they think is funny. But I'm like, come on, stop. Yeah, I was like, get back to it, guys. Hurry up. Hurry up. It turns the climactic anti-climactic really is what it did. Right. Exactly. Especially the stuff with Darcy and her intern, too. Like what we no one cared about them. We did not need to see that stuff during the main battle. You know, Darcy, Jane, Ian, Sylveig, Mew Mew. That was pretty funny, but unnecessary.

53:40
Thor returns the Aether to Asgard where he tells Odin that he denies the throne and wishes to remain with Jain on Earth. Odin accepts Thor's request but as Thor leaves, Odin is revealed to be Loki in disguise. Thor returns to Earth and reunites with Jain. Meanwhile, Thor's friends Volstagg and Sif give the Aether to the Collector to keep it separate from Asgard's other Infinity Stone, the Tesseract. What did you think of the reveal when you saw Loki sitting on the throne in the final shot before the credits rolled?

54:10
Dude, I loved that. That was like jaw dropping, just like, holy shit. That was such a great villain moment. Like if you and I ever did a top 10 bonus episodes of like the best villain moments, that's gotta be up there. Oh, for sure. Hands down. I remember during the mid credit scene where we're on nowhere with the collector, I just thought everything felt so bizarre, but that's because we hadn't been introduced to the world of Guardians of the Galaxy yet, which was totally unlike anything else that we had seen this point in the MCU.

54:40
and the scene still feels really strange to me. It was directed by James Gunn. The cinematography is different. Yeah, and that adds to the disjointed feeling you get when watching it. It really should have been the post-credits scene. They should have flipped the post and mid-credits scenes, I feel. Yeah, yeah. The final end-credits scene was Thor returning back to Earth and he and Jane embracing each other, but I think audiences really needed that type of closure within the main story itself, not just tacked on.

55:07
for sure, especially considering how many people I still, to this day, see leave during the credits at a Marvel movie. I'm like, what are you doing? It's a Marvel movie. But that brings us to the end of the film. I have very few bad things to say about it, honestly. I appreciate this movie more now than I did back when I first watched it, and I really liked it when I first watched it. I never quite understood the flack that it got from fans. This is what I want my Thor movie to be, essentially.

55:36
Overall, the high fantasy worldbuilding and story align with what the Norse mythological superheroes adventures should be. Generic villain notwithstanding, I give this film 4 stars and a fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah, I definitely think it's worthy of a 4 star rating. This is the same rating we gave Man of Steel in the first Wonder Woman movie. I think it's up there. I mean, even though the villain is pretty bad and the humans are kind of annoying, they're not so annoying to ruin the film.

56:05
And there are so many other things that just make up for it. I think it's a spectacular movie. Definitely the best Thor movie. I will fight you if you say it's Thor Ragnarok, because you are wrong. You don't have to fight me, man. Right there with you. Sweet. Not that you would win anyway. Oh, dude, I would totally stop you. That does it for this review. Let us know what you thought about the movie by writing to us at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by visiting us on Instagram, which you can find a link to on our show notes.

56:34
or by visiting our website at dynamicduel.com. And on our site, you could also find a link to our Patreon page, where you could join our dynamic 2.0 tier and chat with us and fellow listeners, our fantastic 4 tier, which gets you bonus content to each month, our X force tier that makes you an executive producer of this podcast, or our newest tier that lets you join our DynaMic podcast network. And guys, please don't forget to rate our show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, or on our website. In our next episode,

57:03
we will be doing a duel between the DC villain Psycho Pirate and the X-Men villain Mastermind. Both of these characters have a lot to do with like mental illusions, so it should be fun. And this of course is in lead up to our review of the animated DC film Crisis on Infinite Earths Part 2. Right, which comes out at the end of the month. But that does it for this episode, we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers Ken Johnson, John Sturowski, Zachary Hepburn,

57:32
Dustin Belcom, Mickey Montagian, Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yatin, Austin Wissolowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Schunk, Dean Molesky, and Devin Davis, our newest executive producer. Thank you so much Devin for supporting this podcast and for influencing what you hear on this show. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up, up and away. True Believers. There's a convergence happening right now. In my pants.