Trigon vs Dormammu

1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:02,972 This is a Dynamike Network podcast. 2 00:00:24,686 --> 00:00:28,927 Hi and welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films 3 00:00:29,287 --> 00:00:33,908 and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters and stat-based 4 00:00:34,028 --> 00:00:40,450 battle simulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm his twin brother Johnny DC. And in this episode, 5 00:00:40,510 --> 00:00:48,492 continuing Spooky October, aka Spooktober, Jonathan and I are coming at you with another Halloween 6 00:00:48,592 --> 00:00:54,838 inspired episode. Last week we reviewed Blade Trinity. And before that we... hit the characters 7 00:00:55,038 --> 00:01:00,720 of Andrew Bennett and Dracula against each other. For this episode, it's going to be a demon 8 00:01:00,780 --> 00:01:06,561 duel. We're going to find out who's going to win in a fight between Trigon and Dormammu. 9 00:01:07,041 --> 00:01:13,343 This is a big one. They are vastly powerful, interdimensional demonic entities. And the 10 00:01:13,383 --> 00:01:16,764 duel is just going to be insane. Yeah, these definitely aren't like your typical demons. 11 00:01:16,784 --> 00:01:21,854 This isn't Etrigan versus Ghost Rider here. These are like the big daddy. demons, essentially 12 00:01:21,894 --> 00:01:25,496 the devil. Well, not so much for Marvel, but we're gonna get into this Big Daddy Demon Duel 13 00:01:25,536 --> 00:01:29,898 later on this episode. Before that, we're gonna break down the latest Kong-Fuk movie news that 14 00:01:29,938 --> 00:01:35,521 came out this past week, including all the drama surrounding the Aquaman 2 production, as well 15 00:01:35,581 --> 00:01:40,724 as all the drama surrounding the Daredevil Born Again series production. Lot of drama. Yeah, 16 00:01:41,144 --> 00:01:47,508 we got Big Daddy Demon Duel's and a lot of mama drama going on. As always, we list our segment 17 00:01:47,548 --> 00:01:51,038 times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes. if you want to 18 00:01:51,058 --> 00:01:56,261 skip ahead to a particular topic. As our listeners may know, our dual simulator is so advanced 19 00:01:56,621 --> 00:02:01,204 that it's gained sentience and has named itself the artificial life form for running extensive 20 00:02:01,244 --> 00:02:08,948 duels, just a rather very intelligent simulator 9000 or Alfred Jarvis 9000. He has a quick 21 00:02:08,988 --> 00:02:15,488 message for our listeners, so listen up. Why hello there. Do you love listening and chatting 22 00:02:15,528 --> 00:02:20,672 about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of the dynamic dual community on Patreon where you 23 00:02:20,712 --> 00:02:25,996 can choose from three tiers. The dynamic 2-0 tier lets you listen to this podcast without 24 00:02:26,116 --> 00:02:30,840 ads and gives you access to its Discord chat group where you can chat with Johnny DC and 25 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,804 Marvelous Joe. The fantastic 4 tier gives you that and more with two bonus episodes each 26 00:02:35,865 --> 00:02:40,608 month including bloopers and top 10 shows where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel 27 00:02:40,629 --> 00:02:45,846 and DC subjects. The X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of Dynamic Dual. where 28 00:02:45,926 --> 00:02:49,867 every month you help the hosts choose what to review and who to fight against each other. 29 00:02:50,408 --> 00:02:55,610 And finally, the Dynamike Podcast Network tier allows aspiring podcasters to create their 30 00:02:55,750 --> 00:03:00,773 own battle-focused show using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop 31 00:03:00,813 --> 00:03:05,675 your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results to announce 32 00:03:05,715 --> 00:03:11,378 on your show. Pitch the twins your show via email at dynamicduelpodcast.gmail.com or by 33 00:03:11,418 --> 00:03:20,220 reaching out to them on social media. your pip cheerio. Thanks, AJ 9K, and thanks to everyone 34 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,541 who supports the podcast. Be sure to tune in to the Max Destruction podcast, which is part 35 00:03:24,581 --> 00:03:29,342 of the Dynamike podcast network this Wednesday, where this whole month Ken is going to pit 36 00:03:29,382 --> 00:03:34,924 some of the spookiest characters from film against each other, including Pinhead versus Pennywise, 37 00:03:35,244 --> 00:03:40,945 Candyman versus Leatherface and Predator versus the Alien Queen. Yeah, last week, I guested 38 00:03:40,985 --> 00:03:46,223 on his podcast where we found out who'd win in a fight between. Jason vs. Michael Myers. 39 00:03:46,724 --> 00:03:51,648 Definitely check that episode out. Also tune into Senjo World this Thursday to find out 40 00:03:51,668 --> 00:03:57,353 who would win in a fight between Dio Brando from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Denji from 41 00:03:57,493 --> 00:04:02,317 Chainsaw Man. The host Zach also has these spooky characters being put up against each other 42 00:04:02,357 --> 00:04:07,161 this month. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all 43 00:04:07,201 --> 00:04:12,505 the shows in the Dynamike Podcast Network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. 44 00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:19,592 A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, 45 00:04:19,872 --> 00:04:24,315 is a digital award that we post on Instagram and in our email newsletter for the person 46 00:04:24,355 --> 00:04:29,337 that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week we asked, what Marvel 47 00:04:29,357 --> 00:04:33,939 or DC character that has not headlined to their own video game do you want to see get a solo 48 00:04:33,979 --> 00:04:39,895 game? We got so many fantastic answers for this. In the end, there were just too many great 49 00:04:39,955 --> 00:04:44,638 ideas, and what we had to do was nail down the great ideas that went into more specifics regarding 50 00:04:44,738 --> 00:04:49,162 the gameplay. Right, right. There are a lot of characters that I think would make for great 51 00:04:49,282 --> 00:04:54,646 open world games like Batman Arkham City or the Spider-Man game. So we had to prioritize 52 00:04:54,726 --> 00:04:58,469 answers with more definitive gameplay aspects. Yeah, let's go ahead and run down the honorable 53 00:04:58,509 --> 00:05:03,933 mentions as well as the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Matt Lamb, 54 00:05:04,033 --> 00:05:08,438 who said. Hey guys, it's Matt Lamb here. See, I'll definitely ask this question a while back 55 00:05:08,458 --> 00:05:13,800 and I'll give the same answer, just with some new details. I'd love to see a Nightcrawler 56 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:18,321 video game and I'd love to see it as an amalgam between Assassin's Creed and a game called 57 00:05:18,421 --> 00:05:24,523 Aragami. It was a stealth game where you play as a ninja wraith with shadow powers. I personally 58 00:05:24,623 --> 00:05:30,125 love stealth games, especially given the opportunity to try and ghost a level without killing a 59 00:05:30,165 --> 00:05:34,634 guard or being seen. And I'd love to see a game like that with Nightcrawler. Yeah, we may have 60 00:05:34,694 --> 00:05:38,496 asked this question before. I know recently we did ask what your guys thoughts were regarding 61 00:05:38,556 --> 00:05:43,919 a Marvel versus DC video game and somebody gave a Nightcrawler answer for that, which we didn't 62 00:05:43,959 --> 00:05:49,482 give an honorable mention. But for this question, a Nightcrawler video game in the vein of Assassin's 63 00:05:49,522 --> 00:05:54,645 Creed sounds totally awesome. Yeah, I love stealth games like Metal Gear, like Splinter Cell. 64 00:05:54,926 --> 00:05:59,968 I think that style of game would be perfect for Nightcrawler who, you know, could totally 65 00:06:00,028 --> 00:06:04,835 stab some fools in the shadows. And, you know, isn't like insanely over the top powerful with 66 00:06:04,855 --> 00:06:08,478 like body armor and stuff that he wouldn't be invulnerable in this game and would make it 67 00:06:08,718 --> 00:06:12,481 a challenge. Right. And, you know, he's really good at hiding in the shadows due to the nature 68 00:06:12,521 --> 00:06:17,264 of his blue colored fur. So you can have Nightcrawler hide in the shadows up on the ceilings and 69 00:06:17,284 --> 00:06:20,386 walls and stuff like that and then teleport where he needs to go to. I think it would be 70 00:06:20,406 --> 00:06:28,932 a whole lot of fun just trying to stay undetected. Oh, I want it now. Yeah, great idea. Our next 71 00:06:28,992 --> 00:06:34,675 honorable mention goes to John Spees. Who said? Hey, fellas, it's John Spees. So I have this 72 00:06:34,795 --> 00:06:39,698 idea. It could be three titles, but it's basically one game. So let's take, like, let's combine 73 00:06:40,499 --> 00:06:46,822 the old Myst game with Portals and Arkham and create a crime-solving puzzle action game. 74 00:06:47,203 --> 00:06:51,485 And if you want it for kids, it can be Detective Chimp. If you want it for teens, it can be 75 00:06:51,505 --> 00:06:56,969 The Question. And if you want it for adults, it can be Roar Shack. I love this idea. I totally 76 00:06:57,029 --> 00:07:02,517 remember the old, like, almost escape room type video games like Myst where you just point 77 00:07:02,537 --> 00:07:07,200 and click on different elements within a room. I would love to see this as a Detective Chimp 78 00:07:07,220 --> 00:07:11,604 game personally and not just for kids. Like I would totally play that as an adult because 79 00:07:11,724 --> 00:07:15,747 Detective Chimp is dope. Yeah, he could deal with some quite mature themes as a member of 80 00:07:15,787 --> 00:07:19,990 Justice League Dark, right? Sure. Yeah, just like Coward the Duck, which is probably why 81 00:07:20,030 --> 00:07:24,550 we pit those two against each other in a Christmas duel that we did a few years back. But no, 82 00:07:24,770 --> 00:07:29,213 I think that's a fantastic idea. Like combining the investigative elements of a game like Myst 83 00:07:29,293 --> 00:07:33,716 with the puzzle solving aspects of a game like Portal. I think that's a winning recipe and 84 00:07:33,736 --> 00:07:38,179 a whole lot of fun when you incorporate like superhero themes, especially with the character 85 00:07:38,379 --> 00:07:43,923 as fun as Detective Chimp. Yeah, 100%. I could see this as a mobile game too. It would just 86 00:07:43,943 --> 00:07:48,406 be awesome. I would love to play it. Yeah, I'd play the shit out of it. Great answer, John. 87 00:07:48,526 --> 00:07:52,789 Make sure to listen to his podcast, The Blast from our Past Podcast with his brother Adam. 88 00:07:53,290 --> 00:07:56,952 Yeah, they're great friends of the show. Love those guys. Our final honorable mention goes 89 00:07:57,012 --> 00:08:02,596 to Colby Hentges, who said, Hey, boys, Colby Hentges. The video game I want to see would 90 00:08:02,636 --> 00:08:08,260 be She-Hulk, Ace Attorney. It would look and play just like the Phoenix Wright games. Capcom 91 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:14,224 can even make it. You do some cases as Jen Walters, some cases as She-Hulk. Unlock bonus cases 92 00:08:14,244 --> 00:08:20,388 you can do as Matt Murdock. But in a very Harvey Birdman way, all the cases will be defending 93 00:08:20,448 --> 00:08:25,595 superheroes against ridiculous claims. I think it'd be fun. Now, I've never actually played 94 00:08:25,635 --> 00:08:30,800 the Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney video games, but I've heard a lot about them over the years, 95 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,183 and I've always been interested in checking them out. I know there's a lot of famous elements 96 00:08:35,203 --> 00:08:39,106 from them, like the objection cut scene and everything like that. With the little knowledge 97 00:08:39,126 --> 00:08:44,090 that I do know about the gameplay and how fun these games look, basically it's the only lawyer 98 00:08:44,110 --> 00:08:50,716 video game out there, right? But I think applying that to the superhero lawyers, like She-Hulk 99 00:08:51,096 --> 00:08:56,359 or Matt Murdock, Daredevil, is a fantastic idea. It definitely suits She-Hulk a little bit better 100 00:08:56,539 --> 00:09:00,301 because part of the appeal of her courtroom stories is how kind of outlandish they get 101 00:09:00,341 --> 00:09:04,464 with the superhero community involved. And I think it would be really cool to, you know, 102 00:09:04,484 --> 00:09:09,686 like go over the evidence and then see how it contradicts the witness statements, then drill 103 00:09:09,706 --> 00:09:14,769 them on the inconsistencies to try to get my client declared not guilty. Sounds really interesting. 104 00:09:15,109 --> 00:09:20,512 I did not know this game existed, but I love unique games like that. I think if you had 105 00:09:20,572 --> 00:09:24,614 some quick action scenes with She-Hulk where she had to like punch someone who leapt over 106 00:09:24,654 --> 00:09:31,018 the witness stand or something like that would be awesome. That would be interesting. Yeah, 107 00:09:31,058 --> 00:09:35,540 Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney is one of the gems in Capcom's game library. So great answer, 108 00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:40,203 Colby Hentges. We also want to give a shout out to Andrew Shunk, Christopher Manotti, Nate 109 00:09:40,223 --> 00:09:46,106 Mantineo, Scott Camacho, Travis Herndon, and Unworthy Collector from Instagram and YouTube 110 00:09:46,166 --> 00:09:51,189 for all going to our website and leaving your answer. But the winner of this week's no prize 111 00:09:51,469 --> 00:09:57,339 is... Rick McGrew who said, for video games, I think the blue beetle would be really cool 112 00:09:57,359 --> 00:10:03,941 because you can play it as he just gets the scarab and the way you unlock is him learning 113 00:10:03,961 --> 00:10:09,702 the new abilities that the scarab would do. So one of my favorite video games of all time 114 00:10:10,082 --> 00:10:16,064 has to be the Metroid Prime series. The graphics, the gameplay, the puzzle element that it had 115 00:10:16,344 --> 00:10:21,285 was just so enjoyable to play. And I think it would translate really well into a blue beetle 116 00:10:21,305 --> 00:10:27,129 game. where, like Rick said, you know, the more control he gains over the scarab that's attached 117 00:10:27,149 --> 00:10:31,691 to him, the more abilities he unlocks, which allows him to explore previously locked areas 118 00:10:32,092 --> 00:10:37,635 of the gameplay map. Yeah, and also allows him to defeat previously undefeatable villains 119 00:10:37,855 --> 00:10:41,657 using his new abilities. I think that's a great idea. I think a Blue Beetle game in the vein 120 00:10:41,837 --> 00:10:46,740 of Metroid Prime is a fantastic idea. There's just so much potential there. Yeah, and it 121 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,450 doesn't even have to be a first-person shooter. Like you make that third person, you could 122 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:54,312 also add like a combat mechanic to it, which would be really cool with like all the different 123 00:10:54,472 --> 00:10:59,074 arms that come from his back and stuff and blades that he can make. It would be amazing. Like 124 00:10:59,094 --> 00:11:03,696 the character of blue beetle was made for a video game. Come on Warner brothers. I know 125 00:11:03,716 --> 00:11:07,977 that you and Disney are flushing out your video game divisions. Our listeners have given you 126 00:11:08,097 --> 00:11:12,879 two bad ass games each they should totally run with because they sound amazing. Absolutely. 127 00:11:12,899 --> 00:11:17,381 I would play the heck out of all of these and I'm not even a gamer barely. They just sound 128 00:11:17,401 --> 00:11:23,308 like a lot of fun. Just take my money. Take it. So congrats to Rick McGrew for winning 129 00:11:23,328 --> 00:11:28,834 this week's No Prize. Guys go check out his podcast called the Retro Nomopod. If you the 130 00:11:28,854 --> 00:11:32,139 listener want a shout out winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on this episode 131 00:11:32,159 --> 00:11:37,185 when we'll be asking another question of the week. And now that that's done, on to the news. 132 00:11:43,006 --> 00:11:48,009 Okay, so there's been a lot of drama surrounding Aquaman 2, and this past week it turns out 133 00:11:48,049 --> 00:11:54,114 that basically all of the rumors we've been hearing are true. Some users on Reddit all 134 00:11:54,154 --> 00:12:00,918 banded together and they paid the court fees to get therapy notes from Amber Heard's therapy 135 00:12:00,958 --> 00:12:07,543 sessions released. And they leaked them online and all of this shit about Aquaman 2 came to 136 00:12:07,583 --> 00:12:13,123 the surface including the fact that according to Amber Heard... Jason Momoa wanted her fired 137 00:12:13,143 --> 00:12:18,607 from set didn't like her and basically the same with James Wan because he felt that anytime 138 00:12:18,627 --> 00:12:23,410 He posted anything about Aquaman 2 fans were just riled up by the fact that she was in the 139 00:12:23,450 --> 00:12:28,934 movie So it just created a very toxic environment on social media for any promotion regarding 140 00:12:28,974 --> 00:12:35,119 the film So both Jason Momoa and James Wan reportedly wanted to get her replaced in the role Which 141 00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:41,982 Warner Brothers was ready to do until Amber Heard's? boyfriend at the time, Elon Musk threatened 142 00:12:42,002 --> 00:12:47,124 to sue the studio. And since, you know, he's the richest man in the world, they took the 143 00:12:47,164 --> 00:12:52,125 threat seriously. I just think that's all hilarious. I think it was largely displayed during the 144 00:12:52,165 --> 00:12:58,007 trial against Johnny Depp that she does have somewhat of a victim complex. So when she stated 145 00:12:58,047 --> 00:13:05,569 things like Jason Momoa dressed up like Johnny Depp in order to tease her. Right. 146 00:13:09,418 --> 00:13:15,181 went to his defense saying that's how Jason Momoa dresses. He wears a lot of rings, a lot 147 00:13:15,201 --> 00:13:20,203 of necklaces. He dresses in this very bohemian style, similar to Johnny Depp, but of course, 148 00:13:20,243 --> 00:13:25,146 she would not really see it that way, right? Right. Variety also released information saying 149 00:13:25,586 --> 00:13:31,370 that Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, Ezra Miller, and Jason Momoa would not be returning 150 00:13:31,410 --> 00:13:36,792 to their same roles in the DCU, though they did say that Jason Momoa is in talks to return 151 00:13:36,933 --> 00:13:42,676 as Lobo. in the Superman legacy movie, which was really interesting. I didn't think it would 152 00:13:42,696 --> 00:13:46,818 happen that soon. I don't think any of that was a surprise, except for maybe Gal Gadot. 153 00:13:46,898 --> 00:13:50,640 I did think that maybe she would hold on to her role as Wonder Woman in the new universe, 154 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,683 but to get it confirmed that she won't be, and then there was no follow-up statement from 155 00:13:55,883 --> 00:14:01,726 Gal Gadot's reps makes me think that all the drama regarding her is over. Yeah, no, I agree. 156 00:14:01,926 --> 00:14:07,189 I mean, it's not to say that she couldn't come back to a role in the DCU, sort of like Jason 157 00:14:07,209 --> 00:14:11,844 Momoa. but it doesn't sound like it's going to be as Wonder Roman. Yeah. They also did 158 00:14:11,864 --> 00:14:17,908 mention in the article, the potential for Universal to perhaps buy Warner Brothers and therefore 159 00:14:18,029 --> 00:14:23,572 DC in the future. So no matter what they do going forward, they need to make it work, whether 160 00:14:23,612 --> 00:14:28,136 it's under Warner Brothers, whether it's under Universal, as it's a big selling point for 161 00:14:28,216 --> 00:14:32,038 Warner Brothers. I think Disney should just buy them. And then we finally get that Marvel 162 00:14:32,118 --> 00:14:38,030 vs. DC movie. Like, why Universal? I guess Universal is in need of the IP. Disney could buy Warner 163 00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:47,155 Brothers over my cold dead body. You alone will defend this. The purchase if I have to. It's 164 00:14:47,195 --> 00:14:51,357 interesting how Disney might be acquired by Apple. Oh, yeah. And then you would have Apple 165 00:14:51,397 --> 00:14:57,421 versus I don't want to say universal. It's NBC Universal, which is owned by Comcast. So really 166 00:14:57,501 --> 00:15:02,943 Apple versus Comcast, two tech companies. Yeah, that's weird. One company makes the products 167 00:15:02,963 --> 00:15:08,567 that you surf on the other company's Internet with. We'll see how everything shakes down 168 00:15:08,587 --> 00:15:13,089 with Marvel and DC business wise in the coming years Yeah, the NBC Universal thing we may 169 00:15:13,149 --> 00:15:17,552 learn about as soon as next year And I just kind of want this whole thing to be done with 170 00:15:17,732 --> 00:15:21,874 so if we're gonna sell just sell I think it could work out. Maybe we'll make some, you 171 00:15:21,894 --> 00:15:26,517 know, Universal Monster comics or something like that. That'd be that'd be dope By we you 172 00:15:26,557 --> 00:15:35,310 mean DC and not you at all. You know when I say I really mean DC In Marvel News which I 173 00:15:35,330 --> 00:15:40,231 won't refer to Marvel in the first person because I'm not delusional. Um, we learned this past 174 00:15:40,291 --> 00:15:45,453 week, this is crazy news. The Daredevil born again series is being overhauled in a significant 175 00:15:45,573 --> 00:15:51,214 creative reboot. Basically when the writers and actor strikes are going on, Marvel executives 176 00:15:51,254 --> 00:15:56,476 were able to review the footage that they had already shot for the Daredevil born again series, 177 00:15:56,536 --> 00:15:59,957 about less than half of the series was shot. And they looked at it and said, wow, this is 178 00:16:00,037 --> 00:16:07,007 not working. So they... let go of the head writers Chris Ord and Matt Corman, release the directors, 179 00:16:07,727 --> 00:16:13,249 and are basically hiring an entirely new writing and directorial team and a new show runner. 180 00:16:13,969 --> 00:16:20,111 And basically overriding their entire process, not just for this show, but for their television 181 00:16:20,151 --> 00:16:26,093 series in general. Which I think is great. I think that's fantastic news. This is both horrible 182 00:16:26,193 --> 00:16:31,283 and fantastic news. So the horrible news is that The Daredevil television show is likely 183 00:16:31,323 --> 00:16:37,228 going to be delayed indefinitely until they hire a showrunner, new writers, and new directors, 184 00:16:37,349 --> 00:16:41,152 and then get this thing filmed, produced, and out there on the streaming platform. They're 185 00:16:41,172 --> 00:16:45,756 basically starting from ground zero with the show, except for, you know, the cast. The good 186 00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:51,581 news about this is that Marvel has realized that their method of making television series 187 00:16:52,022 --> 00:16:57,587 which is in line with their movie production process where basically Marvel was treating 188 00:16:57,707 --> 00:17:04,154 these television series as eight hour long films, you know, given massive budgets and then they 189 00:17:04,174 --> 00:17:08,458 would review it and then basically fix what they needed to with reshoots and post-production 190 00:17:08,518 --> 00:17:12,802 special effects and stuff like that. That is the Marvel method to making movies, which is 191 00:17:12,862 --> 00:17:16,846 not always successful, might I add. And I do think they need to rethink that as well. But 192 00:17:16,886 --> 00:17:21,409 the process definitely doesn't work for television series that are long-form storytelling. You 193 00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:25,251 know, there's a lot more story that could go wrong within the course of six to eight episodes. 194 00:17:25,411 --> 00:17:29,214 And there's no overall creative vision that you get in television series when you don't 195 00:17:29,234 --> 00:17:35,298 have a showrunner. So basically, Marvel's like, hey, there are some great ideas from your standard 196 00:17:35,338 --> 00:17:41,102 television series-making process that we should roll into our Marvel method. And we need to 197 00:17:41,122 --> 00:17:46,818 hire showrunners. We need to film pilots. We need to come up with a show bible. all things 198 00:17:46,858 --> 00:17:52,742 that are essential to quality television making outside of Marvel Studios. Which seems like 199 00:17:52,762 --> 00:17:57,365 a no brainer, right? I mean, I'm surprised they weren't doing that to begin with. Not necessarily 200 00:17:57,465 --> 00:18:04,110 the pilot thing, but like the show Bible, like shouldn't that be the MCU Bible? They have 201 00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:08,193 to have one. I'm sure they do, but you know, they're introducing new characters that have 202 00:18:08,253 --> 00:18:12,416 very little to do with the greater MCU that aren't playing into that larger universe. Shows 203 00:18:12,456 --> 00:18:18,120 such as Moon Knight, She-Hulk. Echo. So these shows can have their own Bible that has very 204 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,785 little to do with a larger MCU, but these documents need to exist that really steer the direction 205 00:18:24,225 --> 00:18:28,928 of the show for the creatives producing it. Yeah, a lot of these shows, because they don't 206 00:18:29,069 --> 00:18:34,573 really lead into anything else, have really lost the must see factor that the films had, 207 00:18:34,853 --> 00:18:39,637 you know, during the infinity saga that we had, because like each movie dealt with like an 208 00:18:39,677 --> 00:18:45,417 infinity stone. or led in some way to Infinity War and Endgame. It'll be nice to see Marvel 209 00:18:45,617 --> 00:18:50,440 return to something like that for this multiverse saga. Yeah, we've said it before on the show, 210 00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:54,583 Marvel needs to get back their cohesion that they once had because everything feels very 211 00:18:54,623 --> 00:18:58,866 disparate right now. And I think this new process that they're gonna adapt will not only result 212 00:18:58,906 --> 00:19:04,450 in a more cohesive universe, but just better television shows overall. So RIP Daredevil 213 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:12,474 coming out in 2024, but here's looking to 2025, maybe 2026. Whenever it comes out, I do think 214 00:19:12,494 --> 00:19:18,177 that there's this unfortunate burden that is upon the show in that because it's coming out 215 00:19:18,197 --> 00:19:24,580 in Disney Plus and it doesn't have the freedom of being on Netflix, it has an uphill battle 216 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,962 when it comes to the inevitable comparisons that will be made to the Netflix show. Maybe, 217 00:19:29,042 --> 00:19:34,164 maybe not. You know, if they were just smart and hired the old writers from the Netflix 218 00:19:34,184 --> 00:19:41,022 show, then this whole situation would be moot. Like. It's so obvious, just do that. I think 219 00:19:41,062 --> 00:19:45,443 that's a great idea. I think that's the only way they're gonna avoid headlines like sure 220 00:19:45,624 --> 00:19:49,905 Daredevil Born Again was good, but it wasn't as good as the Netflix show because that very 221 00:19:49,985 --> 00:19:54,046 likely could be the case. I kinda hope they'd bring the show runner back from season one, 222 00:19:54,566 --> 00:19:58,727 Steven S. DeKnight, cause I just think he did a fantastic job and basically setting up the 223 00:19:58,747 --> 00:20:03,509 whole vibe of what the show would be. But we'll see what happens. Speaking of anticipated television 224 00:20:03,529 --> 00:20:05,889 shows, that brings us to our question of the week. 225 00:20:10,454 --> 00:20:17,315 What upcoming television series for Marvel or DC are you most looking forward to, and why? 226 00:20:17,795 --> 00:20:21,777 Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom 227 00:20:21,797 --> 00:20:26,278 right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message 228 00:20:26,298 --> 00:20:29,779 could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on 229 00:20:29,819 --> 00:20:34,500 the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer, and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize 230 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:39,961 that we'll post to Instagram and our email newsletter. Be sure to answer before October 21st. 231 00:20:47,502 --> 00:20:50,984 But I think that does it for all the news for this episode, so let's go ahead and get into 232 00:20:51,124 --> 00:20:56,347 our main event as part of Spooktober. We're gonna find out who would win in a fight between 233 00:20:56,387 --> 00:21:00,129 the interdimensional demons of Trigon and Dormammu. 234 00:21:15,326 --> 00:21:22,267 Alright, Trigon versus Dormammu. These guys are the big badass demons of the respective 235 00:21:22,327 --> 00:21:27,949 universes. You know, like Marvel has some pretty badass demons like Mephisto, Satanish, Lucifer, 236 00:21:28,249 --> 00:21:33,550 and Asmodeus and things like that, but Dormammu eclipses them all. He's not a hell lord like 237 00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:39,912 them, but he is a class three demon who is in charge of an entire dimension known as the 238 00:21:39,992 --> 00:21:45,650 Dark Dimension, also known as the Realm of Darkness. Wait, what? The Dark Dimension? That's fucking 239 00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:51,013 Trigon's domain, bro. That domain and multiple other dimensions that he's conquered because 240 00:21:51,073 --> 00:21:57,696 he is DC's premier demon lord, like no contest. Well, that makes me feel bad for DC because 241 00:21:57,776 --> 00:22:03,559 Trigon is super lame and he's gonna get his demon ass beat by Dormammu, who is so freaking 242 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:10,143 powerful, you're F'd. This is gonna be hilarious. Dude, you think Dormammu is powerful? Not with 243 00:22:10,223 --> 00:22:16,434 a name like Dormammu. Like Trigon, yeah, it's a powerful, strong name. fucking Dormammu, 244 00:22:16,674 --> 00:22:21,097 you're giving me shit about Andrew Bennett. What the hell is a Dormammu? What the hell 245 00:22:21,137 --> 00:22:27,200 is a Trigon? Trigon sounds like some kind of like tech company. Like they manufacture printers 246 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,783 or something. Like buy your next Trigon printer. Yeah, like a really bad ass printer, right? 247 00:22:33,183 --> 00:22:38,246 Whereas fucking Dormammu is like a company that makes moomoo's or something like that, you 248 00:22:38,266 --> 00:22:45,002 know? What? It's like, yeah, you can't fit in your clothes, buy a Dormammu. Oh my God. I 249 00:22:45,022 --> 00:22:48,845 don't know how you're gonna talk that shit about the Lord of Darkness, but uh, you'll pay the 250 00:22:48,865 --> 00:22:53,329 price. You're gonna pay the price for it. We'll see. We'll see. To explain the methodology 251 00:22:53,369 --> 00:22:59,955 behind our duels, let's go to our sentient duel simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ9K, tell our 252 00:22:59,975 --> 00:23:05,660 listeners how you go about determining a winner in our duel matchups. Yes, of course, sir. 253 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,424 The way I determine a winner between the contestants is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations 254 00:23:10,524 --> 00:23:15,375 using the characters statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to 255 00:23:15,415 --> 00:23:20,538 determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomised the statistics along 256 00:23:20,558 --> 00:23:25,021 a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. 257 00:23:25,421 --> 00:23:30,183 The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters' 258 00:23:30,224 --> 00:23:35,386 statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage 259 00:23:35,426 --> 00:23:40,769 potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. 260 00:23:41,314 --> 00:23:46,116 The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character. The 261 00:23:46,136 --> 00:23:50,619 contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor, as they have a higher probability 262 00:23:50,659 --> 00:23:56,462 to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character should win 100% of the matches. 263 00:23:56,982 --> 00:24:01,465 The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so 264 00:24:01,505 --> 00:24:05,387 the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established 265 00:24:05,407 --> 00:24:10,950 in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are 266 00:24:10,990 --> 00:24:15,391 not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. 267 00:24:16,811 --> 00:24:21,192 Thanks AJ9K! Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down each character's histories 268 00:24:21,232 --> 00:24:26,314 and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations 269 00:24:26,334 --> 00:24:31,755 would play out beat for beat. And I believe it is my turn to go first with the Marvel characters 270 00:24:31,775 --> 00:24:38,537 backstory, so let me go ahead and tell you all about Dormammu, aka the Lord of Darkness, the 271 00:24:38,597 --> 00:24:46,032 Dread One. the god Tyrant, the eater of souls, the ass kicker of Trigon. Dormammu came into 272 00:24:46,092 --> 00:24:52,255 existence thousands if not millions of years ago in the realm of the Falteens, an ancient 273 00:24:52,355 --> 00:24:58,397 race of immensely powerful extradimensional beings of pure magical energy. After several 274 00:24:58,437 --> 00:25:03,800 millennia of existence, Dormammu and his sister Umar began to pull matter into themselves, 275 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:10,115 taking on physical form, a practice forbidden to the Falteen race. After slaying their father, 276 00:25:10,455 --> 00:25:15,959 Dormammu and Umar were exiled from their native realm and cast out into the multiverse. They 277 00:25:15,980 --> 00:25:20,964 explored numerous dimensions, absorbing more matter into themselves, until they settled 278 00:25:21,004 --> 00:25:26,508 upon and conquered the realm of darkness, also known as the Dark Dimension. The realm contained 279 00:25:26,608 --> 00:25:31,913 portals into other universes, which Dormammu and Umar used to absorb other dimensions into 280 00:25:31,933 --> 00:25:37,777 their new domain. After a time, Dormammu discovered a portal into the realm of the Mindless Ones. 281 00:25:38,158 --> 00:25:43,760 which were indestructible magic beings of destruction. The Mindless Ones invaded the Realm of Darkness 282 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,702 through the portal, but Dormammu and Umar were able to constrain and imprison them, releasing 283 00:25:48,722 --> 00:25:53,984 them only at their own bidding. Not long after, Dormammu banished Umar herself to a pocket 284 00:25:54,004 --> 00:25:58,866 dimension so that he could reign in the Realm of Darkness solely and unopposed, though he 285 00:25:58,926 --> 00:26:04,449 did take Umar's daughter, Clea, into his service. As the god tyrant of the Realm of Darkness, 286 00:26:04,609 --> 00:26:10,164 he waged wars against other realms, conquering them and growing his dominion, and thousands 287 00:26:10,204 --> 00:26:15,609 of years ago, he turned his attention to Earth's dimension. He helped create the hellish demon 288 00:26:15,629 --> 00:26:21,233 lord Satanish to spread darkness and prepare his invasion, though Dormammu's plot was thwarted 289 00:26:21,293 --> 00:26:27,538 by Agamotto, the first sorcerer supreme, who used his powerful eye amulet and the mysterious 290 00:26:27,578 --> 00:26:33,063 Staff of One to repel him. Hundreds of years ago, Dormammu tried his hand at Earth again, 291 00:26:33,503 --> 00:26:39,632 causing London's Great Fire of 1666 and using the life force of its victims to link the realm 292 00:26:39,672 --> 00:26:45,236 of darkness to Earth via Stonehenge. He was stopped by a young sorcerer at the time named 293 00:26:45,376 --> 00:26:51,480 Yao, who would go on to become Earth's new sorcerer supreme called the Ancient One, and become 294 00:26:51,540 --> 00:26:56,724 one of Dormammu's greatest foes across the multiverse. In the modern day, Dormammu manipulated one 295 00:26:56,764 --> 00:27:02,708 of the Ancient One's disciples, a sorcerer named Baron Mordo, into serving him and slowly weakening 296 00:27:02,768 --> 00:27:08,052 the Ancient One over time. Feeling too weak to ward off an invasion by Dormammu, the Ancient 297 00:27:08,132 --> 00:27:13,455 One sent his newest apprentice, the hero Doctor Strange, into the Realm of Darkness to stop 298 00:27:13,495 --> 00:27:18,858 the Dark Lord's evil plans. Dormammu sent challenge after challenge at Doctor Strange, though the 299 00:27:18,898 --> 00:27:23,341 Sorcerer was able to overcome them all. And as the God Tyrant drew upon the power of the 300 00:27:23,381 --> 00:27:28,945 Dark Realm, the dimensional barriers within began to weaken, including the barrier that 301 00:27:28,985 --> 00:27:34,000 contained the Mindless Ones. While Doctor Strange was not able to beat Dormammu, he did help 302 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,483 the Dark Lord seal the Mindless Ones back into their confinement, resulting in the God Tyrant 303 00:27:38,583 --> 00:27:43,966 owing him a debt. Strange made Dormammu vow never to threaten Earth's dimension again, 304 00:27:44,446 --> 00:27:49,430 resulting in the Dark Lord swearing vengeance against the hero, and thereafter trying tirelessly 305 00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:53,973 to find a loophole to his bargain. You can learn more about Doctor Strange in his duel episode 306 00:27:53,993 --> 00:27:59,476 against Doctor Fate. Dormammu found a workaround by manipulating or allying with other villains 307 00:27:59,576 --> 00:28:05,059 to kill Doctor Strange and negate their pact. He partnered with Baron Mordo, the netherworld 308 00:28:05,099 --> 00:28:12,183 sorcerer Taza, Loki, Doctor Doom, and others who were all defeated until eventually Dormammu 309 00:28:12,224 --> 00:28:16,906 possessed Doctor Strange himself. Though the heroes allies, the defenders were able to break 310 00:28:16,926 --> 00:28:21,609 him of the spell. You can learn more about the defenders in our Suicide Squad vs Defenders 311 00:28:21,649 --> 00:28:27,151 dual episode. Later on, Dormammu unleashed the Mindless Ones on Earth in a ploy to trap Dr. 312 00:28:27,171 --> 00:28:31,532 Strange and his niece Kleia when they entered the Realm of Darkness. Although Strange and 313 00:28:31,552 --> 00:28:36,794 Kleia were able to free themselves, Dormammu had absorbed the power of his sister Umar into 314 00:28:36,834 --> 00:28:42,495 himself, becoming so powerful that he realized that Earth's dimension was not worth his time 315 00:28:42,655 --> 00:28:48,057 after all. Instead, he found it more sporting to go to war with the Lords of Hell themselves, 316 00:28:48,457 --> 00:28:54,027 including whom you can learn more about in our Sandman vs Mephisto duel, and Hellstorm, who 317 00:28:54,047 --> 00:28:58,489 we haven't done a duel with but will for sure eventually. Allying himself with Satanish, 318 00:28:58,549 --> 00:29:03,911 whom Dormammu created all those years ago, Dormammu usurped two fifths of the Hellscape, before 319 00:29:03,951 --> 00:29:09,834 facing against a stand of the united forces of Hell, led by the superheroine Hellcat, whom 320 00:29:09,874 --> 00:29:14,296 you can learn more about in her duel against Catwoman. Defeated, Dormammu decided somehow 321 00:29:14,336 --> 00:29:19,826 that Earth was again worth the taking, and he influenced a villain called The Hood. eventually 322 00:29:19,866 --> 00:29:25,371 corrupting him enough to possess him and enter Earth's realm, though he was eventually exorcised 323 00:29:25,492 --> 00:29:30,296 by the combined efforts of Doctor Strange, Hellstorm, and Brother Voodoo, whom you can learn more 324 00:29:30,336 --> 00:29:35,662 about in his duel against John Constantine. Inspired by the zombie virus overtaking other 325 00:29:35,702 --> 00:29:41,047 dimensions, Dormammu created a mindless plague that infected Earth, transforming numerous 326 00:29:41,087 --> 00:29:46,211 civilians and heroes into mindless ones. The International Law Enforcement Agency, SHIELD, 327 00:29:46,331 --> 00:29:51,715 then formed a new supernatural fighting force called the Howling Commandos, composed of Zombie, 328 00:29:52,175 --> 00:29:57,118 the Living Mummy, Frankenstein's Monster, and the creature Man-Thing, whom you can learn 329 00:29:57,158 --> 00:30:01,281 more about in his duel against Swamp-Thing. Together with the Absorbing Man, who absorbed 330 00:30:01,341 --> 00:30:05,944 part of the Dark Dimension itself, the team was able to cure those infected with the Mindless 331 00:30:05,985 --> 00:30:11,608 Plague. Recently, Ego the Living Planet was manipulated into joining a cult called the 332 00:30:11,648 --> 00:30:17,900 Brethren of the Forgotten Flame, which prompted him to become the host of Dormammu, now reborn 333 00:30:18,101 --> 00:30:22,744 in Earth's dimension. The Dark Lord conjured a horde of mindless ones to conquer the five 334 00:30:22,784 --> 00:30:30,950 planets of Hala, Skrullos, Spartax, Eri, and Chitauri Prime to use them in a galaxy-spanning 335 00:30:31,050 --> 00:30:36,253 pentagram through which he could summon the entire realm of darkness. It took the Guardians 336 00:30:36,273 --> 00:30:41,037 of the Galaxy, led by Dr. Doom, to stop him, where Dr. Doom used a spell to siphon some 337 00:30:41,077 --> 00:30:46,233 of Dormammu's power and conduct it into a magic metal known as Mysterium, which they used as 338 00:30:46,273 --> 00:30:51,577 a giant deity-stopping bullet. The Guardians fired it at Dormammu, banishing it back to 339 00:30:51,597 --> 00:30:56,721 the Dark Dimension. And that's his backstory. Powers-wise, Dormammu was a member of the Falteen, 340 00:30:57,162 --> 00:31:01,886 energy deities of intensely powerful magic, whose might rivals that of the Celestials, 341 00:31:02,266 --> 00:31:08,291 entities such as Galactus, and Elder Gods such as Zeus or Odin. His physical form is but an 342 00:31:08,431 --> 00:31:14,100 armor shell for his sun-like embodiment. through which he commands an eternal supply of mystic 343 00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:20,225 energy that can ravage the cosmos. Though he is considered a Class 3 demon, he is more powerful 344 00:31:20,245 --> 00:31:25,630 than any of the Lords of Hell such as Mephisto or Satanish, whom he created. Dormammu is virtually 345 00:31:25,690 --> 00:31:31,295 indestructible and immortal. If somehow his intangible raw energy form is destroyed, it's 346 00:31:31,335 --> 00:31:36,119 replenished over time assisted by those who worship him throughout the multiverse. He's 347 00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:41,502 capable of lifting well over a hundred tons. He can travel the multiverse and the time stream 348 00:31:41,602 --> 00:31:48,624 at will. He can alter his size. He can conjure, transform, control, and absorb matter and energy. 349 00:31:49,124 --> 00:31:54,626 He can summon demons or mindless ones to fight on his behalf. He has vast psionic powers, 350 00:31:54,686 --> 00:32:00,867 including telekinesis and telepathy. He can warp reality. He can create and resurrect life. 351 00:32:01,208 --> 00:32:06,549 He can remove and bestow powers on others. Basically, it would have been easier to put together a 352 00:32:06,589 --> 00:32:12,839 list of what Dormammu can't do. He has an inconceivably massive intellect, though he is not immune 353 00:32:12,879 --> 00:32:17,441 to the fault of pride, and he actually does have some training in an extra-dimensional 354 00:32:17,501 --> 00:32:22,843 fighting style. He is slightly weaker in dimensions he has not conquered outside of his dark realm, 355 00:32:23,084 --> 00:32:27,545 such as the Earth's dimension. There you go. Oh, what? I'm sorry, I fell asleep. Are you 356 00:32:27,565 --> 00:32:35,369 done? Yeah. Okay. Sorry, I got bored by how weak and lame Dormammu is. He ain't shit compared 357 00:32:35,389 --> 00:32:39,830 to Trigon. No, you're right. He ain't shit. He's whatever the opposite of shit is. You 358 00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:46,652 are correct. He's way better than Trigon. Right, I mean he is shit compared to Trigon. Let me 359 00:32:46,672 --> 00:32:52,654 tell you about his backstory. Hundreds of years ago, a sect of powerful pacifist humans led 360 00:32:52,694 --> 00:32:58,976 by a woman named Azar left the earthly plane and all its suffering, settling in an interdimensional 361 00:32:59,016 --> 00:33:05,117 land known as Azerath. To ensure that Azerath would remain a place of peace and goodness, 362 00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:10,994 The humans exercised all evil from them and cast it through the Great Door in the Temple 363 00:33:11,034 --> 00:33:17,659 of Azeroth where its energy drifted and coalesced in the interdimensional Aether. This evil energy 364 00:33:17,699 --> 00:33:23,844 was eventually channeled into an unknown dimension by a dying alien race that worshipped evil, 365 00:33:24,144 --> 00:33:31,190 and who used it to impregnate a woman from their order. The offspring was Trigon, a powerful 366 00:33:31,270 --> 00:33:38,055 demon entity that slaughtered his mother and the before taking over and eventually destroying 367 00:33:38,095 --> 00:33:43,837 his planet. From there, Trigon traveled across the universe, conquering worlds and eventually 368 00:33:43,877 --> 00:33:49,919 the entire dimension, spreading his evil across the multiverse and siring children of his own 369 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:56,242 in an effort to expand his legacy and hate. None of his children, all sons, ever survived, 370 00:33:56,262 --> 00:34:01,684 however, as Trigon either had to kill them when they inevitably rebelled and tried to usurp 371 00:34:01,724 --> 00:34:07,652 his power, or they were killed as infants in an effort to stop the spread of Trigon's power. 372 00:34:08,172 --> 00:34:14,237 Several decades ago, in the main DC universe, a young runaway named Angela Roth fell in with 373 00:34:14,277 --> 00:34:20,522 a satanic cult, who accidentally summoned Trigon during one of their rituals. Trigon disguised 374 00:34:20,562 --> 00:34:26,307 himself as an angelic being and took Angela as his bride, impregnating her before destroying 375 00:34:26,347 --> 00:34:28,589 the cult and abandoning Angela. 376 00:34:34,062 --> 00:34:40,385 who Trigon had manipulated into finding and caring for Angela and his unborn child. Angela 377 00:34:40,405 --> 00:34:45,668 was renamed Arella, and though many in Azeroth were not pleased at the idea of caring for 378 00:34:45,728 --> 00:34:50,831 Trigon's bride, they came to realize that if the child was raised on Earth, it would become 379 00:34:50,851 --> 00:34:56,274 corrupted and pose a threat to the entire universe of their old homeworld. Arella eventually gave 380 00:34:56,314 --> 00:35:01,837 birth to Trigon's first daughter, Raven, who you can learn more about in our Raven vs. Phoenix 381 00:35:01,917 --> 00:35:08,039 duel. When a citizen of Azeroth named Juris felt threatened by Raven's existence, he attempted 382 00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:13,280 to hurl the infant Raven through the Great Door into the Nether. But upon opening the door, 383 00:35:13,621 --> 00:35:19,842 Juris came face to face with Trigon, who disintegrated Juris with fiery energy just before the door 384 00:35:19,902 --> 00:35:26,064 shut. The infant Raven herself remained unharmed by Trigon's flames, and when she grew to a 385 00:35:26,104 --> 00:35:31,225 teenager, feeling her father's evil influence over her, she opened the Great Door herself 386 00:35:31,562 --> 00:35:37,425 and gazed for the first time upon the dangerous evil presence of Trigon, causing her to flee 387 00:35:37,525 --> 00:35:43,268 Azeroth to Earth in an effort to find beings willing and capable of stopping her father, 388 00:35:43,728 --> 00:35:48,531 ultimately forming a new incarnation of the Teen Titans, who you can learn more about in 389 00:35:48,551 --> 00:35:54,074 our Titans vs X-Men Teen Duel episode. With Raven on Earth, Trigon was eventually able 390 00:35:54,114 --> 00:36:00,137 to amass enough power to breach DC's main dimension, where he began destroying the planet, beginning 391 00:36:00,177 --> 00:36:05,708 with Manhattan. Though Raven and the Teen Titans fought against her father, they proved no match 392 00:36:05,728 --> 00:36:11,612 for Trigon, and Raven fled to Azeroth where her power would be the strongest, yet unknowingly 393 00:36:11,652 --> 00:36:17,795 providing a path for Trigon to find the peaceful place, which is what he wanted all along. When 394 00:36:17,835 --> 00:36:22,718 Trigon entered the Temple of Azeroth, Raven made a pact with him in which she would serve 395 00:36:22,778 --> 00:36:29,062 him in his realm in exchange for leaving Earth and Azeroth alone. Trigon agreed. and brought 396 00:36:29,102 --> 00:36:34,186 Raven to his hellish interdimensional domain that consisted of entire worlds that lived 397 00:36:34,226 --> 00:36:40,411 in perpetual terror of Trigon's wrath. After Trigon destroyed a random planet known as Zinthia 398 00:36:40,671 --> 00:36:45,755 to show Raven the futility of trying to save or help anyone, Raven helped the Teen Titans 399 00:36:45,816 --> 00:36:51,180 and her mother, Arela, enter Trigon's domain where, with their combined efforts, they were 400 00:36:51,220 --> 00:36:56,804 able to open a portal to a dimensional void and trap Trigon there, with Arela staying behind 401 00:36:56,905 --> 00:37:02,103 to guard the gateway. After years of gathering his power, Trigon was able to break free of 402 00:37:02,143 --> 00:37:08,304 his prison and laid siege to Azeroth alongside his demonic horde, slaying all of its inhabitants 403 00:37:08,704 --> 00:37:14,326 except for his daughter Raven, whom he corrupted completely and who joined him in his conquest 404 00:37:14,366 --> 00:37:19,627 of Earth. After conquering the planet, Trigon made the Titan's Tower his throne, upon which 405 00:37:19,667 --> 00:37:25,189 he entered a state of meditation to regain strength as his power continued to corrupt the planet. 406 00:37:25,669 --> 00:37:32,229 During this time, The corrupted Raven was healed by a ring that contained the pure souls of 407 00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:37,972 everyone killed in Azeroth, imbuing her with a white light that allowed her to corrupt Trigon's 408 00:37:38,132 --> 00:37:44,276 own evil soul and seemingly destroy him. Trigon's soul merely returned to his personal domain, 409 00:37:44,316 --> 00:37:49,819 however, where he gathered his power over time and continued to influence outside dimensions. 410 00:37:50,439 --> 00:37:55,894 Six of his sons, however, were revealed to have survived and- grown by this point into the 411 00:37:55,934 --> 00:38:02,778 deadly sins of man. As their power grew, Trigon's grew weaker, and after his sons captured Raven 412 00:38:02,858 --> 00:38:08,542 in order to open a portal to his realm, Trigon's son siphoned the last of his power, completely 413 00:38:08,582 --> 00:38:15,586 destroying him, only for Trigon's sons to fall to Raven and the Titans soon after. In post-Flashpoint 414 00:38:15,626 --> 00:38:21,129 continuity, Trigon's origin was retconned so that he was once the evil ruler of an unknown 415 00:38:21,189 --> 00:38:27,112 planet in the multiverse. who was visited by a trinity of beings known as the Divine. The 416 00:38:27,152 --> 00:38:32,176 Divine possessed an object known as the Heart of Darkness that they had used on other planets 417 00:38:32,196 --> 00:38:38,280 and galaxies to absorb and eradicate the concept of evil. The Heart of Darkness had no effect 418 00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:44,444 on Trigon, however, who, upon consuming the object, absorbed the evil and power of nearly 419 00:38:44,684 --> 00:38:51,249 100 galaxies, making him the most powerful being in that universe, before murdering and skinning 420 00:38:51,309 --> 00:38:57,084 the Divine. who were then revealed to be his parents. After conquering numerous dimensions, 421 00:38:57,424 --> 00:39:02,766 Trigon impregnated a woman from Earth named Arella, who gave birth to Trigon's first daughter, 422 00:39:02,966 --> 00:39:08,688 Raven, and the two of them hid from Trigon for years in the peaceful dimension of Azeroth. 423 00:39:09,009 --> 00:39:15,671 Eventually, Trigon descended into hell and proclaimed himself among its hierarchy of rulership, gaining 424 00:39:15,711 --> 00:39:21,070 control of a pocket dimension within it known as the Underrealm, or the Dark Dimension. from 425 00:39:21,090 --> 00:39:26,771 which he continues his attempts to corrupt Raven and destroy her world. Powers-wise, Trigon 426 00:39:26,811 --> 00:39:32,333 is one of the most powerful beings in existence, capable of destroying entire planets and conquering 427 00:39:32,493 --> 00:39:38,714 whole dimensions. His strength, speed, and durability are near unmatched in the DC Universe, and 428 00:39:38,754 --> 00:39:43,556 he has a cosmic awareness and telepathic ability that essentially grants him omniscience and 429 00:39:43,596 --> 00:39:49,357 the capability of possessing or mind-controlling nearly anyone. He's capable of casting powerful 430 00:39:49,397 --> 00:39:55,984 illusions, and altering his physical form, allowing him to grow to colossal proportions. He possesses 431 00:39:56,024 --> 00:40:02,287 telekinesis as well as the ability to transmute matter and alter reality, allowing him to distort 432 00:40:02,387 --> 00:40:08,690 space-time or even raise the dead. He can emit eldritch and hellfire energy blasts capable 433 00:40:08,730 --> 00:40:14,652 of destroying planets, and he can generate portals to nearly any location in any dimension. He 434 00:40:14,692 --> 00:40:20,074 can fly and can regenerate from any injury. including the complete annihilation of his 435 00:40:20,134 --> 00:40:26,037 body over time. He's a master of the dark arts and occultism, and though the more power he 436 00:40:26,137 --> 00:40:31,619 uses, the more time he needs to regain his strength. He is made more powerful in the presence of 437 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,942 evil, but also weakened by goodness, purity and holiness. And that's Trigon. Oh, he sounds 438 00:40:38,022 --> 00:40:43,565 pretty powerful, but it's interesting how his greatest enemies are a bunch of teenagers. 439 00:40:43,645 --> 00:40:49,833 Oh, as opposed to Hellcats. His greatest enemy is the freaking Sorcerer Supreme. Yeah, this 440 00:40:49,853 --> 00:40:54,076 Trigon guy doesn't stand a chance. Yeah, the Teen Titans could totally kick the shit out 441 00:40:54,116 --> 00:40:57,539 of the Sorcerer Supreme. Raven alone could kick the shit out of the Sorcerer Supreme. That's 442 00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:01,242 the stupidest thing I've ever heard come out of your mouth. What? You said a lot of dumb 443 00:41:01,282 --> 00:41:05,545 things in the course of this podcast. Raven versus Doctor Strange, let's run the stats, 444 00:41:05,605 --> 00:41:12,851 bro. Come at me, roll up. Oh, I'll take that. I'll take that. Roll up. Roll up on me. No, 445 00:41:12,871 --> 00:41:15,333 we'll do that later. Let's get on to Trigon versus Dormammu. 446 00:41:22,734 --> 00:41:26,457 So we've got those characters' histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate on 447 00:41:26,517 --> 00:41:32,181 how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not 448 00:41:32,221 --> 00:41:37,145 this speculation, but it's fun to imagine how this fight could play out. Alfred Jarvis 9000, 449 00:41:38,066 --> 00:41:43,170 what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other than 450 00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:47,554 the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware 451 00:41:47,594 --> 00:41:52,094 of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For 452 00:41:52,134 --> 00:41:57,338 the speculation, the contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript 453 00:41:57,378 --> 00:42:02,181 environment that will have no bearing on the match itself, as no environmental statistics 454 00:42:02,201 --> 00:42:07,405 are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright 455 00:42:07,445 --> 00:42:13,209 then let's get into it. Trigon and Dormammu meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I 456 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:20,282 mean I'm gonna say Trigon goes first because he's more badass and evil. What now? Dormammu 457 00:42:20,402 --> 00:42:25,724 is gonna look across the battlefield into Trigon's soul. And he's just gonna see a lesser evil 458 00:42:25,764 --> 00:42:31,465 than himself. What? Because he's the true lord of darkness, okay? Dormammu, he's gonna grow 459 00:42:31,485 --> 00:42:37,807 into the size of a goddamn mountain. And he's gonna conjure the flaming sword of the Falteen. 460 00:42:37,847 --> 00:42:42,848 Just, just this massive blade. Okay, meanwhile he just gets blasted with a massive wave of 461 00:42:43,309 --> 00:42:49,099 evil eldritch energy that Trigon spews from his mouth. as he also grows to the size of 462 00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:55,022 a mountain. Okay, but Dormammu is just gonna absorb that dark energy into his sword, and 463 00:42:55,362 --> 00:43:00,145 then he's gonna raise his blade into the sky, which blots out the sun, and turns it into 464 00:43:00,165 --> 00:43:06,608 this black ball of mystic energy. And then Dormammu is gonna point his sword at Trigon, which is 465 00:43:06,648 --> 00:43:12,351 gonna shrink the blackened sun and hurl it right into Trigon. That's right, he just threw the 466 00:43:12,431 --> 00:43:17,022 sun. I mean, that's fine. As the sun is coming at Trigon, he's just gonna... use his claws 467 00:43:17,062 --> 00:43:23,448 to rip open a portal in the fabric of reality to another dimension so that darkened sun is 468 00:43:23,468 --> 00:43:29,493 going to collide with a planet of innocence instead and just destroy it so Dormammu likes 469 00:43:29,533 --> 00:43:35,258 that well so does Trigon because Trigon's gonna absorb the negative emotions from all the millions 470 00:43:35,298 --> 00:43:40,602 of life forms from the planet that just died and he's gonna channel the energy into like 471 00:43:40,662 --> 00:43:48,023 a massive snake like a stone snake that he conjures from the ground beneath them that wraps around 472 00:43:48,063 --> 00:43:54,065 Dormammu and crushes his physical form. Well, Dormammu doesn't really have a physical form. 473 00:43:54,085 --> 00:44:00,428 You know, he's an energy being. What? And he could just easily escape this snake. But instead 474 00:44:00,468 --> 00:44:07,071 of escaping it, Dormammu is gonna transform this stone snake into like a giant, heavy iron 475 00:44:07,171 --> 00:44:12,793 chain that Dormammu is just gonna send out. It's gonna wrap around Trigon and trap him 476 00:44:12,833 --> 00:44:19,383 in a binding spell. Okay. And with Trigon trapped, Dora Mamu is just going to yank Trigon toward 477 00:44:19,403 --> 00:44:23,924 him and just cleave him right in half down the middle with his giant flaming sword. Yeah. 478 00:44:23,964 --> 00:44:28,885 Except that Trigon's just going to stop the blade with his telekinesis and he's going to 479 00:44:28,905 --> 00:44:34,507 grow these massive dragon wings from his back that just shatter that magic chain that was 480 00:44:34,527 --> 00:44:40,449 around him. And with Dora Mamu in close proximity, Trigon's going to use his death stare with 481 00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:45,710 like his extra eyes. You know how he has like six eyes? Well that stair is gonna magically 482 00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:51,634 turn Dormammu's flaming head into ice. And that's gonna spread across his whole body, just freezing 483 00:44:51,674 --> 00:44:56,556 him with the coldness of death. At which point Trigon just shadows Dormammu's body with a 484 00:44:56,657 --> 00:45:04,421 spritin' kick. Okay, uh, Dormammu's body is ice and it's in pieces on the ground, but all 485 00:45:04,461 --> 00:45:09,884 of a sudden these ice chunks turn bright red and they melt, joining together into like this 486 00:45:10,064 --> 00:45:17,745 lake of blood. And uh, from the lake... crawls this army of giant demon skeletons that surround 487 00:45:17,785 --> 00:45:24,390 Trigon and just freaking tear him to pieces. Dang. Okay, well I mean any demon skeletons 488 00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:30,454 that are touching Trigon, all of a sudden each of them gain six glowing eyes. Because that's 489 00:45:30,514 --> 00:45:36,799 right, they're possessed by Trigon now. So they turn around and actually defend Trigon against 490 00:45:36,859 --> 00:45:42,903 the other oncoming skeletons. But also, like Trigon- He's gonna conjure this barbaric black 491 00:45:43,083 --> 00:45:48,706 armor and weaponry for his skeleton crew. So they just whoop the other skeletons asses. 492 00:45:48,726 --> 00:45:56,090 Okay. Except for the last skeleton, because the last remaining skeleton's skull is gonna 493 00:45:56,130 --> 00:46:03,414 suddenly burst into flames and uh, transform into Dormammu. And uh, Dormammu's fiery head 494 00:46:03,474 --> 00:46:09,746 just keeps growing and growing until it just swallows Trigon whole. And then uh- Trigon 495 00:46:09,766 --> 00:46:14,689 finds himself in the realm of darkness, in the dark dimension, where everything's like really 496 00:46:14,729 --> 00:46:20,493 trippy. Oh, Trigon's own dimension. Yeah, that's perfect. No, no, no. Dormammu's dark dimension, 497 00:46:20,653 --> 00:46:28,018 where Dormammu's all powerful. And he's gonna unleash the mindless ones who are indestructible 498 00:46:28,499 --> 00:46:34,543 and relentless, don't like cyclops, what's the plural of cyclops? Cyclopsi. I think it's cyclopes, 499 00:46:34,603 --> 00:46:40,891 actually. Sure. Anyway, they only have one purpose. to destroy everything, and they're gonna destroy 500 00:46:40,951 --> 00:46:47,396 Trigon, who no matter how powerful he is, he's not gonna be able to stop them. I mean, okay, 501 00:46:47,997 --> 00:46:53,961 sure, Trigon isn't able to destroy them, but he can't banish them with a swirling portal 502 00:46:54,221 --> 00:46:59,545 to his dark dimension, where they're just gonna wreck havoc and demolish souls and that's gonna 503 00:46:59,565 --> 00:47:06,030 empower Trigon further, like enough to just shatter Dormammu's entire dimension. which 504 00:47:06,070 --> 00:47:12,333 is gonna fold up into this small black gemstone that Trigon just holds in his hand with like 505 00:47:12,353 --> 00:47:17,476 a little Dormammu screaming inside of it. And with a laugh, Trigon's just gonna crush that 506 00:47:17,516 --> 00:47:24,099 gemstone to dust in his fist. Match over. Trigon just crushed Dormammu's entire dark dimension. 507 00:47:24,259 --> 00:47:29,542 Except you would think that crushing the black gem would just unleash Dormammu, which is what 508 00:47:29,582 --> 00:47:36,834 happens. You fall! What is? Trigon's hand that crushed the gemstone? It's going to turn into 509 00:47:37,154 --> 00:47:42,397 ash and just spreads all across the rest of them as he just gets scattered to the interdimensional 510 00:47:42,637 --> 00:47:48,981 void or wherever they are. And Dormammu is just going to laugh as only his fiery eyes and smile 511 00:47:49,141 --> 00:47:55,905 remain. That's match over. Uh, nah, I'm going to say that's not how the magic works. Like 512 00:47:56,065 --> 00:48:01,508 Dormammu was friggin crushed. That's how Trigon wanted the magic to work. But, you know, he's 513 00:48:01,528 --> 00:48:06,158 just a subpar magician. So, oh my gosh, there you go. We'll go ahead and leave the match 514 00:48:06,198 --> 00:48:11,082 there. Either Trigon collapses Dormammu and his entire dark dimension into a gemstone that 515 00:48:11,122 --> 00:48:17,666 he crushes and destroys, or the very act of crushing it itself causes Trigon to die due 516 00:48:17,706 --> 00:48:22,149 to Dormammu's superior magic. We'll go ahead and see which of these scenarios happens by 517 00:48:22,189 --> 00:48:26,432 plugging in these character stats, running them in 1000 Monte Carlo simulations, and coming 518 00:48:26,492 --> 00:48:33,617 back with a winner. AJ9K, hit it! Inputting data. Running calculations. Processing results. 519 00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:40,554 Simulations complete. All right. This matchup, these guys are fricking off the charts on a 520 00:48:40,634 --> 00:48:47,319 lot of the criteria that we judge standard characters by. Usually your most powerful characters are 521 00:48:47,379 --> 00:48:53,703 able to destroy a city or a planet, you know, but these guys can destroy entire universes 522 00:48:53,864 --> 00:49:00,268 and realities and have done so on multiple occasions. So, you know, it's difficult to quantify. But 523 00:49:00,828 --> 00:49:06,367 overall, we did say that. the characters are actually pretty on par with each other. Yeah, 524 00:49:06,547 --> 00:49:12,328 they're evenly matched in every stat category, which was surprising to me, honestly. I didn't 525 00:49:12,348 --> 00:49:16,309 think they were gonna be so evenly matched, but then again, I didn't know much about Dormammu. 526 00:49:16,829 --> 00:49:21,711 I thought at least Dormammu had Trigon in the fighting skill department, but we've seen Trigon 527 00:49:21,731 --> 00:49:26,792 throw down with some impressive weapons of his own, you know? And I was concerned that Dormammu 528 00:49:27,072 --> 00:49:33,066 was gonna take the intelligence category, considering the original version of Trigon was only hundreds 529 00:49:33,126 --> 00:49:37,887 of years old compared to the millions of years that Dormammu has lived. But it turns out in 530 00:49:37,907 --> 00:49:43,709 the New 52 retcon, Trigon is basically as old as time itself. Even though we all know that 531 00:49:43,749 --> 00:49:49,110 the New 52 is no longer a thing, so pfft, I don't know why we went with that origin. I 532 00:49:49,130 --> 00:49:52,811 don't know, some things have stuck around for a minute. I think Jonathan just likes to pick 533 00:49:52,831 --> 00:49:57,512 and choose the reality that he's pulling from whenever it suits him with a better stat number. 534 00:49:58,033 --> 00:50:07,419 Oh yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Damn cheaters. Actually it stands for damn good continuity. The damn 535 00:50:07,439 --> 00:50:14,101 and good are hyphenated, so it's like one word. Jonathan, given that all the stats for Dormammu 536 00:50:14,121 --> 00:50:20,623 and Trigon were even, including speed, evasiveness, durability, strength, damage, fighting, range, 537 00:50:20,723 --> 00:50:24,924 intellect, perception, and versatility, who do you think's gonna actually win this coin 538 00:50:24,944 --> 00:50:32,038 toss? Please, please let it be Trigon. Please let it be Trigon. Who are you praying to? the 539 00:50:32,078 --> 00:50:36,919 gods of probability, your gods aren't gonna help you here. Geez, these are the dark lords. 540 00:50:38,519 --> 00:50:43,881 I do have to say though that Instagram thinks that Trigon is gonna win because fittingly 541 00:50:44,201 --> 00:50:50,083 66% of our Instagram followers who voted chose him as the winner. And I'd like to think it's 542 00:50:50,123 --> 00:50:56,944 66.6%. I think we just have too many Instagram followers who are DC fans. If you're a Marvel 543 00:50:56,964 --> 00:51:01,786 fan and you're on Instagram, be sure to follow us. I just think it's because Trigon looks 544 00:51:01,826 --> 00:51:07,188 a lot cooler than Dormammu. Cause Dormammu just looks like a fucking matchstick. As compared 545 00:51:07,208 --> 00:51:11,510 to Trigon who looks like a legit devil. Well let's see who won between the matchstick and 546 00:51:11,530 --> 00:51:19,773 the devil. AJ9K, the results please. Hey Yuasa. Alright, the winner between Dormammu and Trigon 547 00:51:20,373 --> 00:51:29,437 is... DORMAMU! Fucking dumb! That's right! It was close though, obviously, because it was 548 00:51:29,457 --> 00:51:38,062 a coin toss. Dormammu out of 1000 matches won 507, whereas Trigon only won 493. So it was 549 00:51:38,102 --> 00:51:46,826 50.7% to 49.3%. Dormammu won 14 more matches out of 1000. I mean, I feel like even if Trigon 550 00:51:46,866 --> 00:51:53,050 came out ahead in these particular simulations, I would still feel underwhelmed. Like I feel 551 00:51:53,070 --> 00:51:58,193 like we did not get an answer as to who would really win, because in reality, it's unknowable. 552 00:51:58,233 --> 00:52:05,049 They're essentially the same character. It is noble math knows we ran the simulations. Dormammu 553 00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:09,872 won. OK, run them again. We only run them once. What are you talking about? I'll freaking do 554 00:52:09,912 --> 00:52:14,615 it. I'll run them again. Dang it. 555 00:52:17,817 --> 00:52:25,142 Run them again. What is going on? Oh, here we go. Try God wins 501 matches. Boom. All right. 556 00:52:25,162 --> 00:52:29,285 Then we'll consider the two of wash and then we'll say that Dormammu won 506 matches. 557 00:52:32,398 --> 00:52:38,983 Whatever. Dormammu comes out on top and Trigon be bygons. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't 558 00:52:39,003 --> 00:52:44,087 know if that made sense. No, it didn't. That is it for this duel. Let's know what you thought 559 00:52:44,107 --> 00:52:49,791 about the stupid results by writing to us at dynamic duel podcast at gmail.com or by visiting 560 00:52:49,891 --> 00:52:54,515 us on Instagram or X. You can find links to all of our accounts by checking out our show 561 00:52:54,535 --> 00:52:59,559 notes or visiting our website at dynamic duel dot com. And on our site you can also find 562 00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:03,682 a link to our Patreon page where you can join our Dynamic 2.0 tier and chat with us and fellow 563 00:53:03,702 --> 00:53:08,846 listeners, our Fantastic 4 tier which gets you bonus content each month, our X-Force tier 564 00:53:08,866 --> 00:53:12,849 that makes you an executive producer of this podcast, or our newest tier that lets you join 565 00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:17,653 our Dynamike Podcast Network. If you can't join Patreon, you can still support the show by 566 00:53:17,713 --> 00:53:23,198 signing up for our e-newsletter also at dynamicduel.com so you'll never miss an episode. Or you can 567 00:53:23,238 --> 00:53:28,990 also rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, and Twitter. or on our website. 568 00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:32,931 In our next episode, we're going to get good friend of the show and executive producer John 569 00:53:32,971 --> 00:53:40,054 Swarovski on as a guest and we're going to review and discuss the 2011 film Ghostwriter Spirit 570 00:53:40,074 --> 00:53:45,696 of Vengeance. Which I have not seen yet. I will be watching it this week for the first time. 571 00:53:46,096 --> 00:53:49,297 But that does it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers. 572 00:53:49,742 --> 00:53:54,345 Ken Johnson, John Sturowski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Belcombe, Miggy Mathangian, Brandon 573 00:53:54,405 --> 00:54:00,090 Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Nick Abonto, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott 574 00:54:00,110 --> 00:54:06,075 Camacho, Adam Spies, and Andrew Schunk for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you 575 00:54:06,095 --> 00:54:11,539 guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. The Demon Code prevents me from declining the 576 00:54:11,579 --> 00:54:12,340 Rock Off Challenge.